THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:09 pm

I'm not jewish, nor are my parents, but Cris and I are regretfully not attending a Purim ceremony at our friends' synagogue this evening. Had our week been a little less intensely activity-driven we'd be there...but not being Jewish gives us the option of just crashing for the night out of shear exhaustion.

(Too bad, really, since this temple's annual Purim is a truly outstanding production. This year it's Motown, and our friend Kendra has the lead.)
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:28 pm

I hope not in blackface..

Runz.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:34 pm

hey steve,
so you're gonna miss the whole Megillah ?
oh well, it does sound as though you've planned a wonderful vacation, safe journey.
follow your bliss,mike

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:04 pm

Bill Maher said that if you have a jewish mother then you are jewish. Is this true?

The ancient Israelites seem to have been patrilineal. For reasons too complicated to go into and about which I wouldn't deny you the thrill of researching for yourself, Rabbinic Judaism became matrilineal. Currently Orthodox and Conservative Jews only accept Jewishishness from a person with a Jewish mother or a convert. Reform Judaism will accept either father or mother.

From a biological point of view of course such things are completely arbitrary. Jews, like all homo sapiens, are the product of the genes of the father and the mother. Since there is no such thing as a Jewish gene any person who practices Judaism is a Jew. Jewishness, like all ethnicities, is purely a cultural construct.

Fortunately the human genome project put the kabosh on all racialist crap. Unfortunately not everyone seems to have got the word.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:59 pm

Bill Maher said that if you have a jewish mother then you are jewish. Is this true?


As Ezra pointed out, according to orthodox beliefs, this is true. I have a friend who is orthodox, and she's told me that the reason for this is that the mother is the one who provides the teachings of the jewish faith during early childhood. That's if I remember correctly. Her brother is the headmaster of the orthodox yeshiva (religious school) in Long Island, New York.

It is purely a religious/cultural construct.

Chuck
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:01 pm

"Since there is no such thing as a Jewish gene any person who practices Judaism is a Jew."

Still, I would LOVE to see what the result of a "Jewish gene" would be like!

Maybe someone will create one in a genome lab: sorta what ya call yer yidisapien!

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:01 pm

"Since there is no such thing as a Jewish gene any person who practices Judaism is a Jew."

Still, I would LOVE to see what the result of a "Jewish gene" would be like!

Maybe someone will create one in a genome lab: sorta what ya call yer yidisapien!
we all may not share a common ancestry; ancient, divergent, mutated strains may have failed to fully remix (as intermarriage only partialy achieves today).

there are questions of faith in this regard for muslim and jewish fundaments.
serious, sometimes violent differences of opinion.

your mother is not my mother; the father is best known (not always with certainty) by the mother.
dna profiling is a boon and a bust, as most things are.

"new and exciting DNA evidence for common Jewish origin"
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48937817.html

"A Jewish Gene for Intelligence?"
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... or-intelli

"The Discovery of the "Cohen Gene""
http://www.cohen-levi.org/jewish_genes_ ... dition.htm

"The Atlanta Jewish Gene Screen"
http://www.atlantajewishgenescreen.org/

"DNA Evidence for Common Jewish Origin and Maintenance of the Ancestral Genetic Profile"
http://www.cohen-levi.org/jewish_genes_ ... idence.htm

"How Ashkenazi Jewish are you?"
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/ ... h-are-you/

"There is now new DNA evidence for common Jewish origin—not just among Cohanim, the Priestly Class, but among Jews scattered all over the globe."
http://www.simpletoremember.com/article ... -genetics/

there is more but this i offer as "last but not least"

"German banker in ‘Jewish gene’ dispute"
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b4ee6db4-b3a0 ... z1H6Ox5AiJ
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:56 pm

cynic wrote:so you're gonna miss the whole Megillah ?


*snarf*
:lol:
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby NeonMosfet » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:57 am

High IQ also demands the ability to think outside the box. One feature of Judaism, that does not exist in Christianity, is Purim Torah. Seems silly, but the ability to extrapolate without being burned at the stake for heresy would be an advantage. humans do have an affinity for associative thought. All primates pay suck up unto the Silver Back. Loosely put, in an Ice Age snow storm, this could translate into blond. I shudder at this idiocy but that's how primates think. Then one monkey makes a break in thought and is capable of independent thought. If the other monkeys don't kill him for not sucking up to alpha male, he might pass this capacity for "genius" to subsequent generations. But then I may be as full of it as any.
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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:23 am

You can be an atheist jew. We can be alike gene wise but still be different, culturally. That salad is tossed for the esprit of life, in joy.

This is why the Israeli/Palestinian scrum is so silly. They are both the same. Pass the joint.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:35 pm

The jews have stayed culturally tight, that's the secret. Blacks, on the other hand are broken. We have a lot to mend before the healing can begin.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:28 am

Barber wrote:
cynic wrote:so you're gonna miss the whole Megillah ?
*snarf* :lol:
I would have been pleased at an eye roll or low moan;
sorry for any grief i caused you.
I did not intend you any disrespect.

I was disrespectful to Rob; and i should not have been.

sorry i could not appologize properly before.
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:35 am

FrankChurch wrote:The jews have stayed culturally tight, that's the secret. Blacks, on the other hand are broken.
those both seem to be racist generalizations.

explain
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:54 pm

Now, waitaminute, there are too such things as Jewish genes. In fact I wore a pair when I saw Barber a few weeks ago. OK, so a guy in a clothing store said I needed a "denim intervention", but still.......

The rationale I have heard about the law of halacha being matrilineal is that there is no doubt about who the mother of a child is, there could always be some small doubt about whom the father truly is. Incidentally, that law is not strictly enforced. My cousins, for example, are the product of a Jewish mother and an Italian (roman catholic) father. Sicne they were both baptized and attended Catholic school, they would not be considered Jewish under the laws of Israel
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:14 pm

I take it back Mike. You own me.


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