THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Grayson
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Grayson » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:09 pm

Hey Mark:

Good points about Beck. Even so, I have heard him mention on his radio show how earlier in his career he was less accepted than he is today in the Bible Belt because of his Mormonism. (I can only really stand about 5 minutes max. of listening to him.) Remember that pretty much all of conservative talk radio was behind Romney in 2008. There is no real way to quantify this but I think many of us would agree that talk radio's influence has shot up in the past two years. It will be interesting to see who the radio hosts coalesce around Palin or someone else.

I really think that if there is a prolonged Rep. primary (much like the Dem. primary between Obama and Hilary) Ron Paul could really factor in. I doubt he could ever win a state but he could get a significant number of primary votes. Remember this is if there are two other candidates going down the stretch for the nomination and everything isn't decided in Iowa and New Hampshire.

I have a feeling somebody will want to try to unseat Obama as the Dem. nominee but that would never work.

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:33 pm

Grayson,

Beck does not hide his religion, but does not actively promote it either, unlike Romney who is one of the leaders of Mormonism in the US (this is a guess, no one knows who the actual Council members are).

Not sure I agree that talk radio has an appreciably greater influence now as opposed to two years ago. This is not to say it has lessened, I just think that audience has stabilized. My primary argument for this is that the demographics on conservative talk show listeners skew towards an older, caucasian crowd. That is not exactly a growing population.

Also, even though the talk show hosts may have endorsed Romney, political leaders did not. McCain, as one example, hates Romney's guts. Why? I have no idea, but I heard that one floating around enough places during the primaries that I would give it the benefit of the doubt.

I do feel there will be a prolonged primary season, as there are some strong differences in principles between many of these candidates. When you have Huckabee vs. Romney vs. Palin you are watching a wide spectrum of conservative beliefs being presented. In that scenario, yes, I would agree that someone like a Ron Paul, with a dedicated core of supporters could become a major power broker.

On Obama, no one would even try to unseat him, as he is polling quite respectably for a 1st term president, and if they tried and lost, their political career would be over. To use an old favorite expression of mine, "the juice ain't worth the squeeze" on that gambit
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:33 pm

Rick Keeney,

No, I don't share THAT boat with you at all!

It's faulty thinking in theory only, and, of course, in OPINION only, but try restraining that virtue when confronted by Limbaugh/Beck/Coulter types; calculatedly unreachable types, who use their wealth and unregulated media power to sucker millions of poorly informed morons, and destroy so much the system has potentially to offer! I would likewise direct the tone Mark calls that of a "condescending prick" at such sewage spills as Boehner, Gingrich, or Karl Rove.

Olbermann is GREAT!

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:36 pm

Actually, that was a gaffe: I meant, "try EXERCISING that virtue"....

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:08 pm

Happy Thanksgiving people: Tom Delay found guilty of money laundering!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/2 ... 88325.html

I told you these motherfuckers were criminals. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

"Hold that cracker down, let me bugger his ass till he can't walk straight." yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:58 pm

Rob,

As I have said earlier, I generally agree with Olbermann politically, but I find his style grating. I much prefer Rachel Maddow who, while equally liberal, does not come across as antagonistic and is just as smart as Keith.

This may sound odd, but when discussing evil like Beck or Limbaugh (and I do believe their beliefs are evil and destructive to a majority of Americans) I flash back to Michael Moorcock's Elric series. One of the points within that series is that only evil can defeat evil. Thus, to save the world, one has to use tactics that are often reprehensible. It is a very cynical view of reality, but one I am not sure is incorrect. My sense is that Olbermann might share that philosophy, as he has aopted the same style as O'Reilly, although he is an ideologically opposed
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:53 pm

Frivolous points-of-view aside, I have to ask - and should have to begin with - HOW and when exactly is Keith Olbermann a "condescending prick"?

He is direct, eloquent, engaging, erudite, and utterly passionate. When he interviews people, it is generally with utmost graciousness, at times deferring to the expertise a guest might have in a particular area.

If he ever sounds inappropriately condescending, it sure as hell isn't often! I watch him every night, and I never pick that up. Occasionally, Olbermann gets TOO florid, but beyond that the beauty of his language and command of his facts are consistently germane.

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:29 am

You're not disagreeing with me, Rob; distracting punctuation aside.

Also: Which boat?

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:22 am

The dingy that's been sinking under my ass all week!

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:17 pm

The trouble is that
markabaddon wrote:Rob,

Thus, to save the world, one has to use tactics that are often reprehensible. It is a very cynical view of reality, but one I am not sure is incorrect. My sense is that Olbermann might share that philosophy, as he has aopted the same style as O'Reilly, although he is an ideologically opposed


The trouble is that in this modern media environment, the higher road gets trampled. :? Hmm, bad metaphore let me start again. . .

The trouble is, that in this modern media environment, those who fight dirty carry the day.

But I don't even think its our side's refusal to fight dirty that's the problem. It's our refusal to fight at all.

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K. M. Kirby
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby K. M. Kirby » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:04 pm

Here's my "Happy Thanksgiving" comment to the Internet.
--kk

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:53 pm

Evil Speaks: "But I don't even think its our side's refusal to fight dirty that's the problem. It's our refusal to fight at all."

What makes this even MORE frustrating is that "our side" gets reminded of this ALL the time, yet few (NONE being from the top of the administrative or executive branches) respond to the criticism! It's like no one is listening, and we still sit on the defense in every major debate. This is the debacle in our entire pr!

James Carville was getting on Obama's case last week about this, and STILL I see no change in tactics. I can't quite fathom this, but it's the biggest reason we're losing!

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:03 pm

rob you are hilarious:

it's "dinghy"...unless you meant dingy which is no boat to float

why the hell does raven not visit this place

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:12 pm

also, i have been misspelling "amanuensis" all along

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:05 am

"Dinghy" IS generally the correct spelling, but "dingy" is an accepted variant.

So speaks my DIC!


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