THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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MichaelRapoport
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby MichaelRapoport » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:46 pm

Barber wrote:I know we have deep red pockets in the state (the OC and San Diego, for instance), but the results of the election nationwide make it clear that the country is in a severely divisive mood -- and I can't help but wonder if this might be the next step along the path to California/West Coast independence. I cannot see the Tea Party and the Golden State being terribly good bedfellows if the current trends continue for another decade or so.

Just sayin'.


Mind if we here in the Northeast join you, Steve?

Grayson
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Grayson » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:36 pm

Barber wrote:(Seriously, the only piece of major Republican legislation which has been enacted is the Patriot Act -- hardly something they should crow about. Repubs may disagree with the details, but in two years the Dems completed Health Care and Financial reform acts which had been decades in a dream state.)



Besides the aforementioned Patriot Act major legislation includes:

No Child Left Behind

McCain-Feingold

Also you may consider 2 different military force authorizations: Afghanistan and Iraq

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:10 pm

Grayson wrote:
Barber wrote:(Seriously, the only piece of major Republican legislation which has been enacted is the Patriot Act -- hardly something they should crow about. Repubs may disagree with the details, but in two years the Dems completed Health Care and Financial reform acts which had been decades in a dream state.)



Besides the aforementioned Patriot Act major legislation includes:

No Child Left Behind

McCain-Feingold

Also you may consider 2 different military force authorizations: Afghanistan and Iraq


Grayson -- You might note that McCain-Feingold was actually not final resulting document, though I'll admit the law itself was based upon a Republican initiative.

Of the two military force authorizations: one was based upon deliberate misinformation, and the other was a truly bipartisan vote so doesn't count. 50/50.

The success of "No Child" remains to be seen, and is strongly debated.

My reference is to actual legislation which was done without the support or involvement of the opposition -- which has been the case since the Republicans decided to sit on their hands in 2006.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:47 am

So now McCain Feingold is listed as an accomplishment, when McCain publicly denounced the bill he co-sponsored?
No Child Left Behind, the single most massively underfunded project in American history gets listed as an accomplishment
Then you have the audacity to list the invasion of Iraq, an undertaking that was based on outright lies, as a piece of legislation you want to hang your hat on?

If that is the best they can come up with, we only have to wait out 2 years and the Dems will be back in full control of Congress
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

diane bartels
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby diane bartels » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:58 am

Mark, from your mouth to God's ear.

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:43 am

dull
dull
dull

diane bartels
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby diane bartels » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:00 am

lull lull lull
Thanks Mark for the answer to my question.

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:23 pm

Pray tell, Mr. Keeney, what is so dull? Is there another topic you would care to discuss?

Diane, not a problem, hope all is well with you
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:38 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Lori, Howard Jarvis, may he rot in hell.

Yea, it should be a simple majority to pass a tax or fee. If the voters don't like it they can throw that bum out.

Balanced budget amendments are just awful ideas too. Sometimes you need to spend to get the sluggish economy moving.



We've got something worse here in Cali now, IMHO. Current law states that we cannot raid the coffers of Education or Transportation, and that they have to be funded at certian levels at any and all costs. We cannot raise taxes or fees, but we've gotta educate and transport millions of people.

This is one of the many reasons I have fallen in love with the following phrase "Why is it that my government can run a defict, but all I get is bad credit?"

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:00 pm

My buddy Gywnne Dyer also thinks there's no reason to panic:

http://www.straight.com/article-353350/ ... rack-obama

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:12 pm

ust to be clear

There is no middle ground, no room for the (seemingly now outmoded) concept of diplomacy. There's more to be made of inflexible stances. It's more interesting, and I'm sure in some cases more lucrative, to be at odds with one another. The Right says "Yes!" and the Left says, "Nuh UHH!" Because it's come to be acceptable to be at odds, to have an enemy, to concede not even the smallest nit of a point, opinion, cent, nor parcel of land. I mean, it's fine with me; I find people in general to be doddering, argumentative for no good reason fuck-drudges, myself included. And, please understand that I think debate is healthy when it is productive. But the ongoing bipartisanship (and I mean the abrasive fuck-drudge variety of bipartisanship) has grown dull, the Israel conversation is dull. For me.

All this because I think at our very best, with all our fucked-uppedness, we complete one another. How's that for an ass-backward stab at diplomacy? (I'm not being ironic.) Our own Steve Barber remarked on his FB page:

You may now say, "Nuh UHH!"

On another note: I am recovering from my emergency room trip (this morning around 1). Cardioversion was again the solution to my latest A-fib crisis. I hear Mayo can fix atrial fibrillaton. We will see. Some of you kind people may ask if there's anything I need. And I need nudes of Angelina, even though I am supposed to remain calm for a few days.

Like Harlan, I get scared, and I admit it. Don't you? I developed unreasoning night fears a few years back, simply shudder myself to sleep some nights. It's disconcerting, to couch it mildly. Wonder can Mayo fix that?

otherwise,
Rick

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:17 pm

Hang in there dude. All I can say.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:30 pm

Steve Evil wrote:My buddy Gywnne Dyer also thinks there's no reason to panic:

http://www.straight.com/article-353350/ ... rack-obama


A less sanguine view -

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/LK05Aa02.html


Rick I feel for you. It's been a year since my afib. I was lucky I guess. I responded immediately to the juice although they tell me it can happen again. No repeat yet. What does the Mayo do?
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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:47 pm

[/quote]What does the Mayo do?[/quote]

All I know for sure is that it involves searing heat and applying said heat to said heart muscle. I'll suspect I'll be required to stop drinking gasoline.

Sparky

Grayson
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Grayson » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:36 pm

Barber wrote:
Grayson wrote:
Barber wrote:(Seriously, the only piece of major Republican legislation which has been enacted is the Patriot Act -- hardly something they should crow about. Repubs may disagree with the details, but in two years the Dems completed Health Care and Financial reform acts which had been decades in a dream state.)



Besides the aforementioned Patriot Act major legislation includes:

No Child Left Behind

McCain-Feingold

Also you may consider 2 different military force authorizations: Afghanistan and Iraq


Grayson -- You might note that McCain-Feingold was actually not final resulting document, though I'll admit the law itself was based upon a Republican initiative.

Of the two military force authorizations: one was based upon deliberate misinformation, and the other was a truly bipartisan vote so doesn't count. 50/50.

The success of "No Child" remains to be seen, and is strongly debated.

My reference is to actual legislation which was done without the support or involvement of the opposition -- which has been the case since the Republicans decided to sit on their hands in 2006.


Yeah I know M-F wasn't actually what was passed but I just used it as shorthand.

I find it interesting that when you mention the health care and financial reform bills you say that, "Repubs. may disagree with the details." But then you then talk about the relative worth of the bills I mentioned. I was under the impression that we were discussing major (however one defines that) legislation passed under Republican or Democratic administrations, not which bills were good or bad for the country. I was simply noting several things that you missed besides the Patriot Act.


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