THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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shagin
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby shagin » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:07 pm

Go, Sara, go!

Had the first, and most important, of two appointments today. It was...rough.

But I have finished another piece, "The Business of Rats". Now to let it rest before I edit with prejudice. Where's my hatchet? Right, right. Left it in YJ's leg.

shagin
Suspenders of Disbelief: For When the Harsh Weight of Reality Threatens to Drag the Trousers of Our Imagination Down to the Unforgiving Floor of Mundanity!

diane bartels
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby diane bartels » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:44 pm

Sara, great news all around. I am happy for you. If I could could make a suggestion - publishing tastes may have changed a good deal in the intervening years. Perhaps send it out there again. it sounds like a book I'd love to read.

If I had a great deal of cash, I would run a different kind of homeless shelter, where people could stay and not have to leave during the day, and eat and shower. Education and work for those who want it, shelter and food for those who can't. No tv lots of books.

Kenneth Stevens
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kenneth Stevens » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:52 pm

Obviously "my" account was fictional. In the world we live in it would really happened like this:

A man in our town shot his wife at pointblank range with a double barreled shotgun while she slept. The jury acquitted him in less than 15 minutes. Everyone in town knew what a mean bitch she was and how much he and his kids had to put up with.

She came home drunk, hit him, told him she was going to kill him and the kids and then went to sleep. He decided that action was the better part of valor and put her out of his misery. Then he went to jail, got raped in the shower, and died by lethal injection. The end.

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:07 pm

Ummm, Kenneth? Word of advice, you might want to come on a little less like an a**hole in your first postings here. I don't know you at all, but toning it down a bit might be advisable.

Mark
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Sara Slaymaker
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Sara Slaymaker » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:48 pm

David, I don't blame you for hitting her. She deserved it. There ARE instances in which a woman is the abuser, but given general size and physiology, and upper arm strength, it isn't even close to the norm.

I'm not going to answer Kenneth again, it's not worth the psychic energy.

SANDRA!!! TWO DAYS!!! ARE YOU PSYCHED?? I'M SO EXCITED FOR YOU!!
What appointments? How's your tooth? Are you out of pain yet? God, I've been there - the only thing that helped me was single malt scotch - which I don't really like, but it worked.

Mark, thank you. As it happens, a friend of mine in Vermont is a mediator and if she won't do it, she can point us to someone who can. I can't file until the bankruptcy is done, so I have some time. But I like the tip about facebook, and will go do that now.
Change is a dragon. You can ignore it, which is futile. You can fight it, in which case you will lose. Or you can ride it.

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Sara Slaymaker
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Sara Slaymaker » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:50 pm

Hey! I want an avatar! How do I do an avatar?
Change is a dragon. You can ignore it, which is futile. You can fight it, in which case you will lose. Or you can ride it.

Kenneth Stevens
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kenneth Stevens » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:53 pm

I have nothing to tone down, as I have used no offensive language, nor insulted any any person or group. But because I suggested that premeditated murder is wrong, no matter whether the person who drops the hammer bears XX or XY chromosomes, the words "bitch" and "asshole" have been used in connection with my name in an astonishingly brief period of time.

I know enough to recognize the early signs of what sociologists refer to as "mobbing," and so will in the future limit my comments to the Pavillion.

Richard Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Richard Keeney » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:06 pm

Thanks Kenneth. And, for the record, it's called FLASH Mobbing:

"get out ya seat
and move ya feet
get out ya seat
and move ya feet"
"It would be interesting to know what it is men are most afraid of. Taking a new step, uttering a new word is what they fear most."
--F. Dostoievsky, from CRIME AND PUNISHMENT

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Sara Slaymaker
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Sara Slaymaker » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:26 pm

Actually, Kenneth, while strictly factual, that's not entirely true. You did suggest, by your tone, to several women on this board, one of whom you KNOW has been abused in some manner, that there is no perceivable difference between a woman beating a man and a man beating a woman. If a woman is bigger and stronger than the man she's living with, if she habitually beats him and possibly her children as well, if she threatens to kill him and possibly the children, if the authorities tell him to stop making her mad and she won't beat him and won't do anything to help, then yes, there is no difference. But how often do you hear of that happening, as opposed to the opposite? Vermont has the highest percentage of domestic violence in the country. I don't know how it breaks down as to men beating women vs. women beating men, but I'm DAMN sure it isn't 50/50. There is a woman's shelter in every county. There are no man's shelters.

And Gwyn's little story wasn't about homicide. It was about self-defense. Walk a mile, son.
Change is a dragon. You can ignore it, which is futile. You can fight it, in which case you will lose. Or you can ride it.

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David Loftus
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby David Loftus » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:30 pm

Kenneth:

You were obviously looking for trouble right out of the gate, so of course you got it.

This is not the least evidenced by the fact that you didn't bother to read the responses carefully enough to see that no one necessarily called you a bitch or an asshole, or didn't care to suggest that you might have read that carefully, yet you responded with the pretense that people did in fact attack you with such names. (FYI, Lori suggested the woman in your "story" was just as much a bitch; Sara referred to herself as a bitch; and Mark said you were coming across "like" an asshole -- not that you are one.

From my long experience on this board as well as the 'net as a whole, this was a pretty restrained reaction from the peanut gallery. Yet you pretended to take umbrage anyway. It won't wash, fella. Not now, and not in the long run.

You would have done better simply to have stated "premeditated murder is wrong," rather than to employ a squirrely turnabout that left your point a little cloudy. Especially when none of us was acquainted with you from previous posts and therefore prepared to put an intelligent spin on your peroration.

This board can be a wonderful place to hang out. But you have to be willing to be a little wonderful to show you belong here. Evidently you may not care to.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:42 pm

We certainly need to change the subject because there are worse people in the world and they have R's after their names:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js7mjQkV6tc

Poor BP, awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

I didn't know Republicans were in favor of due process. First time I heard that one. Hmm. Thanks for helping our side Barton. The democrats live to smell the anal vapors of the right (thank you Lewis Black), but the right keeps giving them gifts. Just let them talk and we win without firing a shot. Nice.

Then you had Ann Coulter on Fox saying that Nixon's Enemies List never existed, that it was a myth! John Dean is chuckling.

Kenneth Stevens
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kenneth Stevens » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:45 pm

>This is not the least evidenced by the fact that you didn't bother to read the responses carefully enough to see that no one necessarily called you a bitch or an asshole<

Uh, no, they didn't. That's why I wrote:

>the words "bitch" and "asshole" have been used in connection with my name<

Note the phrase "in connection with." I chose my words carefully, and did not say that anybody called me anything...but I can see where this is heading.

I wanted to clear that up before I log off for good.

PS. Thank you for the civility of your reply.

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David Loftus
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby David Loftus » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:56 pm

In other words, you set yourself up to be victimized, and darn it, you're determined to paint yourself the victim here.

Why not make a strong stand for what you believe instead of being sneaky and then stealing away at the first sign of fire?

My contention stands: you were looking for trouble at the outset and you're gonna do your darndest to suggest you were justified in expecting the worst, yes?

Why not play for (and expect) the best?
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:03 pm

Hey, David - condolences to you and your wife!

Kafkahead
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kafkahead » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:26 pm

Kafkahead here

A question out of curiosity, to anyone that's on: has anyone ever seen Kenneth on the Pavilion? I think I never saw his name there. Also, a quick question to David: is VA a rewarding job? I've always fancied doing radio drama, the vintage kind, that is: a bit of the Green Hornet script reading gives me the strength to enter into character.

K.


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