"Israel!" "Is Not!"

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Steve Evil
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Steve Evil » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:29 am

Nothing here in an entire month? What gives? Has there been peace?

Alas:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... eace-talks

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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:43 pm

How in the hell do you engage in peace if you let the settlers continue to build? There has to be a freeze before any talk can be called real, beyond the lack of Hamas support.

The media has been very quiet about the Red Cell leak.

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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:00 pm

We need some good news on this day. In Marseille, which is in France (for Alan), Muslims, Jews and Christians live very well, because leaders of those movements come together and actually dialogue when there are problems or issues. Also poor Muslim youth get access to jobs and hope, unlike in other parts of France, which sparked massive violence back in the day, except for Marseille, which there were zero riots. Dialogue works, violence doesn't.

Source: Smithsonian Magazine.

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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:10 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Marseille, the birthplace of Joseph Pujol, aka. "Le Pétomane" (1857–1945), is part of the same France that bans hijab (headscarves) in school, and also is planning a ban on the burka/niqab?

I say women should have the right to wear whatever the hell they want to. If a woman's husband is forcing her to wear something, that falls in the category of domestic abuse and should be treated as such. Show me a Marseille where a woman can proudly wear a burka and I'll show you a Marseille that is proud of a man who can play a flute with his ass.


Frank, have you read Palestine, by Joe Sacco? I'm thinking of suggesting it to my interfaith reading group as a double with Art Spiegelman's Maus 1&2. I want to shake them up a bit.
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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:09 am

Gwyn, I'd blame Sarkozy, not Marseille. France doesn't have free speech like we do here. One thing even many lefties here take for granted.

As long as you understand that wearing a head covering doesn't make one Muslim. Many women in the Islamic world show their hair. Women protesters in Iran ripped off theirs in protest.

It's a choice, baby gurl. France restricts choice. Having good cheese isn't enough.

------------

No, never read that book. Will investigate. As long as the writer doesn't blame the Palestinians as the main instigators. Just doesn't jibe with the history.

You should have them read Finkelstein's new one.

Send some light Lori's way.

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Steve Evil
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:33 pm

Frank: To my knowledge Joe Saccho is very sympathetic to the Palestinians. Provided I'm recalling the same book. . .

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:09 am

http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Joe-Sac ... 690&sr=1-1

Product Description
Fantagraphics Books is pleased to present, for the first time, a single-volume collection of this 288-page landmark of journalism and the artform of comics. Interest in Sacoo has never been higher than with the release of his critically acclaimed book, Safe Area Gorazde.
Based on several months of research and an extended visit to the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the early 1990s (where he conducted over 100 interviews with Palestinians and Jews), Palestine was the first major comics work of political and historical nonfiction by Sacco, who has often been called the first comic book journalist.

Sacco's insightful reportage takes place at the front lines, where busy marketplaces are spoiled by shootings and tear gas, soldiers beat civilians with reckless abandon, and roadblocks go up before reporters can leave. Sacco interviewed and encountered prisoners, refugees, protesters, wounded children, farmers who had lost their land, and families who had been torn apart by the Palestinian conflict.


and...

http://www.amazon.com/Safe-Area-Gorazde ... 690&sr=1-3

Product Description
A landmark work of New Journalism is now available in softcover.
Safe Area Gorazde is Joe Sacco's 240-page opus about the war in the former Yugoslavia. Sacco spent four months in Bosnia in 1995-1996, immersing himself in the human side of life during wartime, researching stories rarely found in conventional news coverage. The book focuses on the Muslim enclave of Gorazde, which was besieged by Bosnian Serbs during the war. Sacco spent four weeks in Gorazde, entering before the Muslims trapped inside had access to the outside world, electricity or running water.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
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Steve Evil
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:34 am

I had to read Safe Area Gorazde in J-School. A very powerful work. The prof occassionally got flack for assigning a "comic-book" in his class, but he was unapolegetic, simply telling critics: "read it". He never had to repeat himself.

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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:57 pm

All Obama asked Israel to do is to freeze on settlement building, but now Israel continues to build, killing peace. Motherfucker.

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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:31 pm

Critics of Israel and anti-semitism, historian Stephen Shalom breaks down the arguments:

http://www.zcommunications.org/anti-sem ... hen-shalom

Man, never saw those Ben Gurian quotes before. Man that guy was a bigot.

The stuff about the UN was interesting as well. It's complex folks, not as simple as some of you here make it.

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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Moderator » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:36 pm

FrankChurch wrote: The stuff about the UN was interesting as well. It's complex folks, not as simple as some of you here make it.


:shock:

Complete, utter, spluttering double take.
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Ezra Lb.
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:29 pm

Barber wrote:
FrankChurch wrote: The stuff about the UN was interesting as well. It's complex folks, not as simple as some of you here make it.


:shock:

Complete, utter, spluttering double take.



We'll try to do better Frank.

:roll:
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Lori Koonce
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:47 am

We'll try to do better Frank.


*whispered*

You think I ought to be the one to remind Franklin that HE's the one who always makes things black and white?

Or would that be wasting my warm breath on this rather nippy SF day?

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markabaddon
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby markabaddon » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:39 pm

Lori, ain't worth your time. ANd trust me it is colder here than where you are. Wind chill in the negatives this morning

Mark
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Lori Koonce
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:04 pm

markabaddon wrote:Lori, ain't worth your time. ANd trust me it is colder here than where you are. Wind chill in the negatives this morning

Mark


I'm just not used to having to wear my hoodie and favorite sweatshirt at the same time that's all Mark. Thankfully they are both compatible shades of green.

And if it's so cold, why not bring Karen and the boys to SF for a California chanukah. The gelt and dreidels work the same way out here ya know!


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