"Israel!" "Is Not!"

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:20 pm

The "easing of the civilian blockade" looks to be just window dressing:


http://www.zcommunications.org/let-them ... athan-cook

cynic
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby cynic » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:41 pm

oh no! it's that flat earth friedman guy again!
The Real Palestinian Revolution
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/opini ... ?th&emc=th
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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:15 pm

Israel concluded their neat little "investigation" of the flotilla attack. Surprise, surprise, Israel was justified in killing nine people in international waters, but they did report that the killings were bungled. You gotta admire them when they admit their flaws.

-----

Did you know we armed Fatah to attack Hamas, that later led to the civil war that displace Gaza from the West Bank? Hamas took over Gaza. Another imperial blunder.

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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:24 pm

The BBC world poll was done on the most popular and unpopular countries in the world. Iran was the lowest rated, but Israel, dear Israel, is at nineteen percent! Right up there with Iran and North Korea. The US is at 49 percent, while Germany is the most popular (Jan, time to break out the bier--fizzy mugs raised high!) at 59 percent.

This is a world wide poll. You know this poll will not be mentioned. Unless they have the stones to say that the entire world is anti-semitic.

I feel Israel's pain.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... nt=660&lb=

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Steve Evil
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:45 pm

How times have changed. . .

I never met a German I didn't like (no wait, there was that clerk in Franfurt train station. He was a prick. But all the others were great!)

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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:23 pm

FrankChurch wrote:[snips]... The US is at 49 percent, while Germany is the most popular (Jan, time to break out the bier...


Um, Frank, you mean the bier for the US's public world image? Otherwise it's "beer" --- oh wait, you meant http://germanrail.8.forumer.com/a/bier-poster_post892.html

Well, I say anything that gets you laid is a good thing. Unless it's in a coffin. :P
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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:15 pm

Gwyn, hon, I will gladly make an apostate of ya. haha.

Lori took me to divorce court. :)

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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:46 pm

I'm not going to act excited about this, because this is just a disgusting find--not surprising, but disgusting. It seems Netanyahu went to a settler's house in 2001 and it was secretly caught on video tape. This was later played on Israeli television:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeT_KLuCdug

The english transcript is at 2 minutes 15 seconds.

Best to freeze each word he says, so that you can read it.

Netanyahu tells the settlers that he killed the Oslo agreement, which is odd since Israel blamed Arafat as did the Israel lobby. He mocks America, telling them that he controls us, like we are his dupes. He may sadly be right. He talks about how the Palestinians should be "hit hard." How they should use military defense posts as a way to take land. The settlers complain about giving away Hebron. Netanyahu tells them that they should not worry.

This is sick shit. He is a liar. Saying Clinton was "extremely pro-Palestinian." Really? Dennis Ross might have something to say about that.

This gives me no joy. This is sad.

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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:55 pm


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markabaddon
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby markabaddon » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:05 am

Some of you who are friends of mine on Facebook may have seen this, but my rabbi brought up something in regard to Israel on Saturday that just infuriated me.

The ultra-orthodox rabbis have proposed a bill, which is sitting in front of Bibi right now that would give them sole authority over conversions to Judaism. Basically, if this law passes, to be considered a Jew you would have to be converted by a rabbi on their prescribed list. The idea of someone making a value judgment over who is or is not "kosher" (for lack of a better term) for approving a converion sickens me

The right wing nutjobs ain't just here in the US, folks
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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David Loftus
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby David Loftus » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:08 pm

As is the case with the complacent hordes.

I understand that roughly 80 percent (or more) of the population of Israel is either some other sect of Jew besides orthodox or just plain secular, and their response historically to orthodox Jewish sects' interest in running the religious establishment has been complacency: if they want it, fine -- I don't care. That's how religion (and, to an unhealthy extent, I think) government in Israel gets so skewed toward the conservative and orthodox viewpoints.

It's bad enough that Americans seem to think if fellow American citizens are Jewish, they're automatically going to approve of anything that Israel does.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:16 pm

The best critics of Israel tend to be Jewish, with strong street cred--which is an important thing. Street cred meaning that you aren't controlled by some power system--big media, elite education, a centralized businessmind/Church, sometimes the same thing since high finance is a secular form of religion.

Reaganism started the rightward slog--here and Israel. The left needs a better counter-narrative than "conservatives are mean."

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FrankChurch
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:44 am

See, I knew the anti-semitic meme was there all along, beyond a fake apology to Ezra a while back.

Just remember the rules folks--the only rules that exist for only one subject: If you criticize the holy state you will be demonized. McCarthyism lives in many forms.

The obvious tincture of this debate is that Israel's greatest critics are jewish: Amira Hass, Norman Finkelstein, Neve Gordon, Schlomo Sand, Israel Shahak, Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, Rabbi Michael Lerner:

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0428-04.htm

If I was illiterate Harlan would have nuked me years ago. The man is many things but he doesn't abide dummies.

Imagine, if you will, an arab country saying: "We have to build a fence to keep out jewish immigrants to keep our arab culture." I'd imagine that country would be called the next nazi germany--rightly.

Literate hearts supercede even the able brain.

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markabaddon
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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby markabaddon » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:12 am

Has anyone ever heard the late Bobby Fischer speak about Jews and Israel? He stated repeatedly that he was not anti-semitic, because he had nothing against Arabs, while he hurled insults and racist propaganda at Jews.

Notice how the troll does not at any point deny his own anti-semitic tendencies, but rather deflects the argument.

All those people you listed, has any of them referred to Israel as a criminal state and consistently defended the actions of terrorists to kill innocent Jewish women and children?

C'mon Paul/Frank, admit it. You have a Nazi flag in the basement of your Mom's house where you live, don't ya?
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: "Israel!" "Is Not!"

Postby Tony Rabig » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:16 am

There's an Arab country that's worried about how to deal with all the Jewish immigrants?
--tr


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