Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Postby Moderator » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:57 am

One thing that has always puzzled me about the Rapture and subsequent Tribulations is this:

300 Millions Christians -- and only Christians -- suddenly disappear from the face of the Earth. Vanish. Kapoof!

Then the rest of us get treated like shit until we own up to yeah, there is a God and Jesus was his son. If, at the end, we don't we're shredded (or whatever) and sent to Hell for eternal damnation. Or analog tv sets in a digital world. Whichever.

My question is this: Millions vanish and Biblical prophecy is fulfilled on a daily basis.

Just how effing dumb to they think the other 6 billion people of the world are to not figure out -- rather quickly -- that the Christians were right all along and "come and get me Lord" becomes the battle cry???

Conversely, if there's no rapture, will they accept that maybe, just maybe, they overstated God's intent to torture the rest of mankind???
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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:41 am

You're expecting Christians to be logical? To make sense?

Where have you been?






(Note: I do not intend to be read as singling out Christians for lack of rationality. They're only human.)
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Postby Peggy » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:16 pm

Steve,

That seems a low figure? I found several sites claiming the number is upward of 2 billion, though that's usually self-proclaimed so who knows the real number.

Makes your point even more valid, then.

Peg
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Postby Barney Dannelke » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:20 pm

I think the god I don't believe in will just pull a number out of a hat.

Will he be able to foresee the number? Can it be written on a piece of paper so small he can't read - even with bi-focals? Will it be in base-10?

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:39 pm

Since I was raised in a group that ate and drank this stuff let me explain...

First of all everyone who self-identifies as a "Christian" ain't gonna make it to gloryland. Only the born agin, Bible believin' (and that's every word bucko), Jesus lovin' folks are gonna get raptured.

That would still be millions apparently but see, the Anti-Christ, he's smart. And like the Shadow he has the power to cloud men's minds (and women's too). He'll think up some convincing sounding story (UFOs or terrorists) and all you sinners'll swallow it hook line and sinker.

Ok here's where it gets complicated. The period of suffering is called the Tribulation Period and it will last 7 years. I won't bore you by explaining this but I'm sure the rapture ready website can if you're a masochist.

There is however a debate between people who think(?) that the rapture will occur before the Trib period (Pre-Trib) and those who say, no, real christians will go through the Trib (Post-Trib) and then be raptured.

The Pre-Trib is the majority opinion (for obvious reasons) but they debate as to whether anybody LEFT BEHIND can be saved of if they are doomed. The crew I was borned into believed that you got one chance and after the rapture everyone left was fucked.

But Obama can't be the Anti-Christ. How do I know? The AC has to be a European head of a 10 nation confederacy. (Once again go do the research.) This is why these folks distrust the UN and NATO.

From childhood on until I escaped I had this stuff pumped into my noggin. This used to be a fringe set of beliefs but now it is the mainstream hope of millions of American evangelicals.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
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Postby Chuck Messer » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:39 am

Good old Hal Lindsey. How often has The Skeptic, Skeptical Enquirer, Amazing Randi, etc. have debunked his mis-reading of the bible? And yet, it's treated as holy writ by those too damn lazy to check out his interpretation of several passages in that there book. I know, 'cause I got hooked into the ones living and breathing the Late, Great Planet Earth during sunday school and really got fucked over by it for a while.

One of the reasons why it seems the whole world is one big spherical looney bin, with no doctors.

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Postby FrankChurch » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:43 am

Chuckie, people need their crock. Even Peter Popoff is still ticking. Think of all the times he got found out by Randi and the like.

The one good thing is that even Trinity Broadcasting fired Lindsey for saying that Muslims were evil. Odd world.

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:28 am

One of the interesting things about Hal Lindsey's LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH (and let's not forget C.C. Carlson the guy who actually wrote the book) is that it was the best selling nonfiction book of the 1970s. Back in those times the Christian publishing industry was beneath the notice of the mainstream publishing industry and the NY Times bestseller list.

The fringe has become mainstream. A lot of folks out there think the LEFT BEHIND books are REAL.

Oh for completeness sake my fave End Times novel is WE ALL FALL DOWN by Brian Caldwell.

http://www.amazon.com/All-Fall-Down-Bri ... 00&sr=1-15

Not a satire exactly but a well written exploration of what all that Book of Revelation blood and thunder would really be like. The comments are great on the Amazon site when the fundies go in thinking they're getting another Left Behind type book!
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:45 am

Brian Caldwell WE ALL FALL DOWN part 2...

Press release on the issuance of the book back in 2006.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

PRLog (Press Release) – Dec 14, 2006 – Manhattan, December 13, 2006. Caldwell has a book deal with Alphar: The premise of "We All Fall Down" (ISBN#0978602447) is that the Bible is true, the prophets were right, and Armageddon is now: Brian Caldwell explores the nature of hatred and forgiveness, divinity and damnation through the story of one person's confrontation with the end of the world, God, and, most harrowingly, himself. When you no longer need question the nature of the universe, does it follow you no longer need question the nature of your soul?

We All Fall Down is a harsh adult novel exploring Christianity, a subject that is rarely tackled in this way. Brian Caldwell says, "Now that my X-generation is in its 30’s and 40’s, we can just start to eyeball death down the road and we’re raising kids and we’re starting to feel the affects of being locked out of our own religion. Does anyone really think that if Jesus came back today that he’d be hanging around with Bush and the gang demonizing the homosexuals and the illegal Mexicans? Calling Gas Chambers showers doesn’t change what they really are anymore than throwing the word compassionate in front of conservative makes that true.

But I don’ think the churches should get involved in protesting the war or capital punishment, or anything else, frankly. Yeah, like everyone, I think MLK was great, and what he did for civil rights was amazing, but if we allow for some political involvement, it opens the door to the rest.
There’s horrendous violence in We All Fall Down. But it’s not a Christian book. It’s a book about Christianity. So, yeah, it’s totally appropriate. In the world I live in, people don’t say ‘heck’ or ‘fudge’. People talk about the enormous amount of swearing, but they really should walk down the hall of a high school and they’d see I downplayed it. This is one of the problems of what Christianity has become. It’s supposed to deal with sin, but it refuses to face up to it. We All Fall Down is about the end of the world, about a world without God, how do you write that with even the smallest amount of realism and not include sex and violence and profanity.

You don’t overcome sin without looking at it. And, of course, there is enormous hypocrisy when it comes to this. Christians will complain about the saturation of sex and violence in the media, something that’s a serious problem, but then embrace a movie like Passion of Christ. Aside from the fact that Christianity demands a white bread, boring lifestyle, it also demands an intellectually stupid one. I don’t want to minimize the idea of how much crucifixion sucked, but what was it someone once said? “Jesus Christ had a really bad day for your sins.” If I knew after I died there would be an eternity of complete and utter bliss, that’s I’d be second in command of Heaven, honestly, a day of torture would not be that bad.

It’s certainly not reason enough to hand your life over to a belief. And the belief itself is really odd. God made us the way we were, knew we were going to sin, then put sin in our face, then punished us for our sins. We couldn’t go to Heaven because of sins that God knew we were going to commit, so he made a son who needed to be horribly tortured and killed. Then we could go to heaven. As long as we believed in that story. If we didn’t believe in it, we’d go to hell. Forever. Because we didn’t believe in a story.

The thing that always jammed me up was the Jews. I would say that we all agree that the Holocaust was probably the most brutal, horrendous event in human history. So these six million or so people suffer for a few years, are tortured, terrorized, and killed. And after this, our loving God sends each and every one of them to hell? Hitler tortured them for a few measly years, but then God is going to do it forever? Because they don’t believe in the right thing?

I know a lot of people in my X-generation became atheists or at least agnostics because questions like this couldn’t seem to be answered, or if they were, the answers were so insultingly simplistic, “God moves in mysterious ways,” that they just shut down that part of their life. But we can’t do that forever, and I do think there’s a lot of truth in the Bible, but it’s adult truth, intelligent truth, and difficult truth.

I’m always shocked when people give their kids a Noah’s Arc toy. I always want to say, “Yeah, that’s adorable. Does it come with extra stuffed toys of the millions of bloated corpses of babies and children God drowned. It’s not a children’s story and yet the entire religion has become so simplified, that it shouldn’t be a huge surprise that a fun little story about genocide would become children’s entertainment."

Find a copy and read it.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:49 am

Most Christians are great people. No need to worry. The church of Capitalism is the church I am most worried about.

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Chuck Messer
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Postby Chuck Messer » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:15 am

Ah, yes. The Church of the One True God, Mammon, and his Holy Market. That's the kind of corruption that brought about the protestant reformation during the rennaisance.


Chuck
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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:35 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:I’m always shocked when people give their kids a Noah’s Arc toy. I always want to say, “Yeah, that’s adorable. Does it come with extra stuffed toys of the millions of bloated corpses of babies and children God drowned..."



Not to mention all the billions of animals, utterly innocent of sin, who perished horribly as well.

This is a point I've never heard anyone make, except in Timothy Findley's incredibly fabulous novel, Not Wanted on the Voyage.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Dress Up Like a Flamingo

Postby kevinkirby » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:23 pm

So let us all put our heads back in *The Hole* like good little flamingoes, or like Tad the Turkey from that recent Republo Palin promo, as the Bushes continue their timeless tradition of slinking back into the concrete counting-bunker. Only five years until the 100th anniversary of these Merchants of Mass Destruction.

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Postby reddragon70 » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:54 am

Just out of curiosity, how long do you think Obama will serve before some freak, nut or KKK member decides to try and assasinate him to try and secure their place in the history books as the man who killed the USA's first black president?

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Postby Moderator » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:08 am

David Loftus wrote:
Ezra Lb. wrote:I’m always shocked when people give their kids a Noah’s Arc toy. I always want to say, “Yeah, that’s adorable. Does it come with extra stuffed toys of the millions of bloated corpses of babies and children God drowned..."



Not to mention all the billions of animals, utterly innocent of sin, who perished horribly as well.[/i].


Well.. And not to be too scientific about it, but what happened to all of the plants? 40 days submerged -- in what was likely a fairly saline solution once fresh rainwater mixed with the oceans -- is pretty well going to lay waste to the planet's flora, so what did they do in the intervening years until crops and other forms of plant life re-arose from the deluge??? (Did they bring seeds?)
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