Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Barney Dannelke
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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Barney Dannelke » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:30 am

History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Moderator » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:34 am

FrankChurch wrote:Give me five reasons how he earned the award and we will talk.


Two days after taking office he reversed the government's use of specific methods of torture with prisoners.

He signed an executive order closing the prison at Gitmo. (The fact that his operations people haven't yet managed to hand off all of Bush's "detainees" to other countries -- the US itself still refusing to take them -- aside.)

His speech to the Islamic world, repudiating the not-incorrect perception so many of them had of the United States.

His willingness to TALK to our adversaries, bringing North Korea -- who exploded a nuke under Bush -- back to the table, and now we have Iran actively engaged in negotiations with a recently stated promise to allow inspectors. Because we talked to them and didn't snarl.

Dramatically improved relations with Russia, and a reversal of the intent to put interceptor missiles in Europe.

His military commitment to fighting pirates off Somalia, and encouraging other countries to contribute to the presence.

The drawing down of troops in Iraq and recommitment to making decisions on Afghanistan.

A significant change in foreign policy.

A sea change in world opinion of the United States as a direct result of his presidency and action, thereby making the world safer through a lack of confrontation. (Not to mention it being safer and more pleasant for Americans to travel abroad these days. No more rehearsing the phrase "Je suis Canadien" before leaving.)

Improved relations with South America -- even your buddy Hugo has said nice things.

The multitude of things he did as a Senator as well as prior to that working with inner city kids to make their lives better.


Need I go on?

I maintain it was a premature award, but I certainly recognize why it was given and accept that it is a legitimate handing out of the award.
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Barney Dannelke
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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Barney Dannelke » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:06 am

Everything that Steve said. But to put it even more succinctly, these people are vessels for human intentions.

Desmond Tutu being a prime example. He didn't END apartheid. He was one of the primary vessels that said, "we really should stop doing this." Had apartheid NOT ended he still would have been a valid recipient for that award.

Obama simply standing behind the POTUS podium and saying it would be BETTER if we stood over here meant a couple of BILLION people woke up and said, "MAYBE all Americans are not QUITE the ass-hats we thought they were."

That alone rates a nice dinner, a medal and a pile of money to charity - IMHO.

Chomsky? Ron Paul? Glenn Beck's "tea-baggers?"

N****, please.
History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby cynic » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:32 am

(1)Thorbjørn Jagland
(2)Kaci Kullmann Five
(3)Sissel Rønbeck
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(5)Ågot Valle
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:42 am

Wha, Mike?

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Moderator » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:50 am

Nice, Mike.

(Look 'em up Frank. It's really very funny.)
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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David Loftus
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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby David Loftus » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:47 pm

ANOTHER Socialist plot?

Hard to keep 'em all straight.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:25 pm

FrankChurch wrote:The entire left and right agree on something. Obama did the right thing by not embracing the award. lol
Lori, silky and milky, who said that to ya? I defend my woman. lol



I'm scared Frank. For once I 110% agree with you on something. *giggle*

As for the Russian comment, it was made by a total nutcase. He and I went around a bit, and once I started speaking French he left me alone. Go figure.

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Moderator » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:09 pm

If they blamed hom for the Obama Recession, do you think Faux News will give him credit for the Obama Recovery?

NEW YORK – More than 80 percent of economists believe the recession is over and an expansion has begun, but they expect the recovery will be slow as worries over unemployment and high federal debt persist.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091012/ap_on_bi_ge/us_economic_recovery

And in only eight months.

(We all know, of course, that it was not all Obama's doing, any more that Bush accepts blame for the entire Recession. But don't tell Faux. They tend to see things in terms of black and white.)
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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:19 pm

The real economy is getting worse. The unemployment rate is really around 16 percent. Wall Street is doing great, but we know why. When you keep bailing them out, they usually recover.

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby markabaddon » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:21 pm

Technically speaking Frank, the unemplyment rate is not 16%. What you are referring to is the U-6 rate, which takes into account marginally attached workers (those working less than 40 hours who would prefer full time work) and thsoe who have stopped looking for employment. That rate, by the way, is closer to 17%, not 16%

There are some signs of improvement in the economy, not just on Wall Street, such as a reduction in inventories, job growth in the small business sector, and some others, but it still is a mixed bag at this point. Pretty much all economists have agreed we have bottomed out, but the question of if or when a rebound occurs is one no economist is sure of
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:05 pm

Wages are going down as well, so people will need two jobs, which there are none.

I was using the "real" numbers, which Mark was so good at backing up. My Jewish friends are good at math...Wink.

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Duane » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:13 am

Here's an interesting post on a website called AfricanAmerica.org that describes the relationship between Obama's election, the current conservative movement, and race relations here in the U.S.

There are people in my life who need to read this.

I think the only way to accomplish this goal will be to fully digest the words myself and find a way to work them into conversation whenever the issue comes up. A little honey, methinks.

Curious to know what y'all think of this.

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Barney Dannelke
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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Barney Dannelke » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:34 am

I'm not keen on the first paragraph, but I like the rest of it enough I'm stealing it for my Facebook page.
History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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Re: Barack Obama - 44th President of the US of A

Postby Anthony Ravenscroft » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:22 pm

I reallyREALLY detest all of the "the worst is over! full recovery is just around the corner!" quotes from the same ass-hats who previously were saying, "Yes, there's a recession, but it's almost over" & before that "there is no recession, stop being a negativist whiner" & before that "there can't possibly be a recession, things are going too well."

Here's why: http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/02/great-depression-quotes-1929-vs-2008-have-we-learned-anything/

Or maybe http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/120692.

Or http://myinvestorsplace.com/2009/05/10/great-depression-1929-quotes-statements/

I doubt it'll be anywhere near so bad as the 1930s. For instance, there's not a Dust Bowl looming. However, reviewing what the experts of that time had to say strikes me as irrational exuberance, or perhaps just whistling past the graveyard.


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