On Taxation and Socialism

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:24 pm

Frank wrote

I was thinking more along the lines of "this is what I own, if you don't have anything, then it is your fault. You have to work harder or die."

Steve Evil wrote

I've no problem with the private sphere. I just object to rich people expanding their private spheres to the point where there's nothing left for the rest of us. The world is surely a public sphere, no?

What you both are reacting to is the character of the Right, that is, to not understand the Public sphere. To believe that everything is private. In a liberal democracy there will always be this tension between the private and public spheres. Attempts to resolve this tension are dangerous and to be resisted whether by the Left or the Right. Wisdom lies in shall we say...another direction.


addlepate I almost missed your comments about "dialectical materialism". What evidence do you have that DM is an accurate description of reality? Give an example. Remember the reponsibility for proof (or more accurately evidence) is not on the one who doesn't believe but on the one who does.

Whip it out.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Postby Moderator » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:08 pm

The Bushies do it again. Banks got a Windfall in the midst (and in addition to) the bailout.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/09/AR2008110902155.html?hpid=topnews
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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:32 pm

More that is private should be public, that is my main theme.

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:58 am

For example?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Postby Moderator » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:07 am

FrankChurch wrote:More that is private should be public, that is my main theme.


Ezra Lb. wrote:For example?



Sex.

Oh, wait ... wrong website.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:03 pm

People's true identities on the 'net?
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Postby cynic » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:04 pm

David Loftus wrote:People's true identities on the 'net?

but dave...if they can't see me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4ZnGprp ... ed&search=
mike

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Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:30 pm

Reviving this long-dead thread to note that John McCain and others have been screaming about earmarks again, this time in a spending bill that was approved by a 63-32 vote in the Senate.

McCain's issue, which he is using as a bat against Dems and President Obama, amounts to 1.7% of the overall spending bill.

In the current economic crisis, 1.7% of a single spending bill is hardly going to dig us out of the recession/depression. Smoke and mirrors, and yet he screams that it's Obama that is conducting politics as usual.
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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:21 pm

A lot of these so called earmarks were made up. They talked about a high speed train from Disneyland to Vegas. It's not even in the bill. It mentions high speed rail, but not for any particular area.

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Postby Alan Coil » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:07 pm

FrankChurch wrote:A lot of these so called earmarks were made up. They talked about a high speed train from Disneyland to Vegas. It's not even in the bill. It mentions high speed rail, but not for any particular area.


In specific, the rail was from Disneyland to the Bunny Ranch, taking the innocent tots directly from one fantasy land to another!

{the Bunny Ranch has a longer name, but you get the point...i hope}

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:48 pm

The repubs have nothing else. They're flopping about helpless. They're eating each other.

JINDAL-PALIN 2012 OUT DEMON OUT

Gotta love it.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:18 pm

It's been long remiss of the American public in its failure to see this, but it should be clear now that the only reason Conservatives bellow for "smaller government" or "no government" is because they know they'll be WATCHED when they rape the markets, the taxpayers, and the financial institutions.

The bullshit language they use, "individual liberty", is coding for let US do as we please, even if it's at the expense of the Middle Class.

It's all twisted, fucked-up double-talk to dissolve regulation and discredit the necessary balance between a PEOPLE'S government and private business. WE have to follow laws as civilians; THEY likewise must follow laws to conduct free markets. Interestingly, the LESS regulation the LESS freedom to the greater number of businesses, as we now see the typical outcome: the biggest business swallows the smaller ones, and MERGES, creating a conglomerate. Those who CLAIM to be capitalist fail to grasp or admit that the only engine that fuels capitalism is competition. De-regulation QUASHES competition, and therefore a functional capitalist system.

How difficult...and how LONG did it HAVE to take? Why did it require such disaster, for the masses - the so-called "centrists" - to latch onto this reality?

As a Democratic Socialist I have ALWAYS been for nationalizing such things financial aid for education, health care, and the country's general infrastructure. NOW let's see what happens! If it's successful at all, the Right is finished (a little late, but better than never).

While the general market is certainly best left to the private sector, the aforementioned are services that only get exploited and bogged down by private institutions (hey - even schools took kick-backs from private lending institutions, as it turns out, passing the additional burden on to the students, if I got that right!). That's part of the machinery that creates a Middle Class. And that's what many people - victimized by endless rhetoric from the Right - have failed to understand. The SADDEST part is that they won't listen when you're trying to warn them, and this kind of disaster is the result; probably a throwback to our tribal instincts.

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:30 pm

Just to add one more bit to my last post, this specious crap about all government being hopeless and clumsy bureaucracy (and it CAN be, for SURE), is that notion that private businesses are necessarily or even commonly LESS so.

Any time I deal with the phone company, the power company, the cable company, banks, and even many department stores, I'm reminded of this fact.

Bullshit half-truths to sell a gullible public.

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Postby Alan Coil » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:11 pm

And "State's Rights" is code for "Let's get the Federal Government out of the picture, and we can force them Negroes to the back of the bus again."

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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:33 pm

That's kinda harsh.

Sometimes it just means "let's get the fedrul gummint outta the pitchur 'cuz we wanna develop and build and dump waste and mine, and it's a lot easier to bribe local and state officials."
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus


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