A death like Mussolini's is too good for Karl Rove

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Douglas Harrison
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Postby Douglas Harrison » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:05 pm

Barber wrote:Douglas, before you go all Dick Cheney on my ass, take note that the crux of my argument isn't for limited media (I'm a staunch First Amendment advocate), but for that media to have a more balanced view. (Remember, on the net even pedophiles can find peers who insist their attitudes are "normal".)

I'm not saying it's possible, but I'm saying that this multiplicity is not the panacea for having too few "professional" news organizations on television, in print and the radio.

Personally, I favor retroactively limiting the number of stations and papers any one corporation can own, both in total and in-market.

But that doesn't mean I like having websites that flat out lie to their readers/followers.


Okay, Steve, I'll put my six shooters away. I think I misread you. At any rate, I already acknowledged that the web has beaucoup crap caught in it. But it also has a great deal of valuable information in it, information that I find easier to access than in the days when I would have had to travel to the library and wade for hours through the periodicals section. And there's a lot of good debunking on the net, as well.

People who are genuinely interested in understanding the world are not gonna spend their days in some fucked-up internet community (as opposed to this one, he said self-consciously). Those are the ones who will make a difference, and those are the ones I am glad have more options than they once had.

Time for the trusty Margaret Mead quote: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

D.

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:24 am

Whoops Douglas sorry about my discombobulation. :oops: Look on the bright side though it gave us a chance to freak out Frank.

Speaking of whom...

Frank you act like snobbery is a bad thing.

Now don't interrupt me I'm busy reading Chaucer in the original Middle-English. :wink:
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:46 am

Frank approves only of a snobbery of One, especially if it enables one to look down on one's natural allies.

Otherwise, elitism is Uncool.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:35 am

My "natural allies" are the working class, since I am of that ilk, no matter how elitist I appear. Class divisions are real--my comfort factor tends to be with people who get their hands dirty.

As to their ignorance of issues and cultural norms, I always blame the doctrinal culture first.

The "perception managers" are more than mere snobs. Think newspeak tempered with democratic bunting: things like the manufactured "vital center" and simular rot.

I would not post here if I didn't think we all had something in common, not just our love and virtual lust for one angry old jew.

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Postby Moderator » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:53 am

FrankChurch wrote:My "natural allies" are the working class, since I am of that ilk, no matter how elitist I appear. Class divisions are real--my comfort factor tends to be with people who get their hands dirty.


Okay, I know you will not tell us. But Frank, I would be willing to bet my entire allotment for Vegas next weekend that you don't dig ditches for a living. Nor would I figure you for working at McDonald's. Those are both solid, respectable jobs for many people, but you just don't strike me as "working class".

FrankChurch wrote: As to their ignorance of issues and cultural norms, I always blame the doctrinal culture first.


I don't agree. I blame the restrictions placed on our educational system. Free the teachers to teach thinking instead of memorization and you'll free up the working classes.

(Or is that precisely what you're saying???)

FrankChurch wrote: The "perception managers" are more than mere snobs. Think newspeak tempered with democratic bunting: things like the manufactured "vital center" and simular rot.


Do you have HDNet? I howled last weekend when Scott McClellan was interviewed by Dan Rather. McClellan kept referring to "Marketing" the Iraq war to the American people. At one point Rather stopped him and said "It sounds more like propaganda. By 'Marketing' do you mean propaganda? If not, what's the difference?"

McClellan stopped, got kind of an odd shit-eating grin and answered "well, not a whole lot, really."

FrankChurch wrote: I would not post here if I didn't think we all had something in common, not just our love and virtual lust for one angry old jew.


Agreed. That's what begat us, but we're ever so much more.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:15 am

Barber, we are family, I got all my Sista's and me.

I work in Catering, as you know. Catering has its moment, but it is surely blue collar.

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Postby Moderator » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:57 am

FrankChurch wrote:Barber, we are family, I got all my Sista's and me.

I work in Catering, as you know. Catering has its moment, but it is surely blue collar.


I've never been to Catering.

(Bah-dum-bum)

Yes, definitely blue collar, and lotsa hard work. I've worked with caterers many times (at least three times this year alone).

(Doffs hat.)


Off topic, but I'm planning a photo series on catering and restaurant kitchens.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

Douglas Harrison
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Postby Douglas Harrison » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:02 pm

Barber wrote:Off topic, but I'm planning a photo series on catering and restaurant kitchens.

I'll pay you for a picture of Frank--in his natural habitat.

D.

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:49 pm

The free food is a plus.

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Barney Dannelke
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Re: A death like Mussolini's is too good for Karl Rove

Postby Barney Dannelke » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:20 pm

Report Reveals CIA Conducted Mock Executions

A long-awaited report on post-9/11 interrogation tactics will reveal harrowing new details about treatment of suspected terrorists.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/213188

Well, they put Solzhenitsyn up against the wall, what, something like three times and pretended they were gonna pull the trigger? So I guess we showed some restraint, eh? You know, compared to umm, a Re-animator flick. At least you didn't have to carry a copy of your novel typed out on onion skin paper in a cigarette pack while waiting to get it smuggled out of the country. So, if you look at it like that we got off easy.
History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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FrankChurch
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Re: A death like Mussolini's is too good for Karl Rove

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:55 am

Barney, you sound like one of those leftist extremists Kate is so worried about..lol

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Steve Evil
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Postby Steve Evil » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:09 am

Barber wrote:I don't agree. I blame the restrictions placed on our educational system. Free the teachers to teach thinking instead of memorization and you'll free up the working classes.



Seconded. Standardized testing as it exists in the English speaking world serves mainly the interests of textbook publishers and the politicians sitting on their editorial boards. Results are used to turn the public against the teacher's unions - "look how badly THEY are failing your children!" Without mentioning who cuts back all the funding for schools to the point they can hardly operate. . .

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Barney Dannelke
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Re: A death like Mussolini's is too good for Karl Rove

Postby Barney Dannelke » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:35 am

I don't know who Kate is and I don't know what a leftist extremist is. I just sell books for a living.
History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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FrankChurch
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Re: A death like Mussolini's is too good for Karl Rove

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:49 pm

Kate, who Harlan went after in the Pav.

So, Barney, the store is open? How's it goin?

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Chuck Messer
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Re: A death like Mussolini's is too good for Karl Rove

Postby Chuck Messer » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:02 pm

I don't think Harlan "went after" Kate. He spoke his piece, made his point and did so without being the legendary enfant terrible, which is how he usually does things on the Pavilion.

But he sure didn't sugar coat things.

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.


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