A death like Mussolini's is too good for Karl Rove

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Barney Dannelke
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A death like Mussolini's is too good for Karl Rove

Postby Barney Dannelke » Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:21 am

For anyone not familiar with the circumstances;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mussolini

[/quote]On April 29, 1945, the bodies of Mussolini and his mistress were taken to the Piazzale Loreto (in Milan) and hung upside down on meathooks from the roof of a gas station, then stoned by civilians from below. This was done both to discourage any fascists from continuing the fight and as an act of revenge for the hanging of many partisans in the same place by Axis authorities. The corpse of the deposed leader became subject to ridicule and abuse.

A gas station would be perfect. Don't you think? In any case, my seething hatred for this human slug was re-awakened this morning by this Salon piece;

http://www.salon.com/books/excerpt/2008 ... index.html

It's a long piece but it has its sick rewards, not the least of which is the sternum punch of the last three paragraphs.

- Barney Dannelke
History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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Postby Barney Dannelke » Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:23 am

grrr. The Mussolini bit is suppused to be in the quote block and the rest is...

fuck it.
History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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Postby Barney Dannelke » Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:26 am

Like this...

For anyone not familiar with the circumstances;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mussolini


On April 29, 1945, the bodies of Mussolini and his mistress were taken to the Piazzale Loreto (in Milan) and hung upside down on meathooks from the roof of a gas station, then stoned by civilians from below. This was done both to discourage any fascists from continuing the fight and as an act of revenge for the hanging of many partisans in the same place by Axis authorities. The corpse of the deposed leader became subject to ridicule and abuse.



A gas station would be perfect. Don't you think? In any case, my seething hatred for this human slug was re-awakened this morning by this Salon piece;

http://www.salon.com/books/excerpt/2008 ... index.html

It's a long piece but it has its sick rewards, not the least of which is the sternum punch of the last three paragraphs.

- Barney Dannelke[/quote]
History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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Postby Moderator » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:36 am

I rarely have truly dark feelings toward another person (note I did not use the phrase "human being") but I could likely be arrested for what I would like to see happen to Rove and Cheney. Rest assured even Josef Mengele would be impressed.

I'm not threatening either of them in any way -- just happen to have an active imagination. Hillary as Attorney General would be a start, however...
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Postby robochrist » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:04 pm

"I could likely be arrested for what I would like to see happen to Rove and Cheney."

No way I could leave out the 3rd contingent of "Our Gang". Bush, Cheney, and Rove should get life sentences.

One time, I was tempted to post here precisely what I felt should befall these guys; but similarly to Steve, I imagined the potential fall out if I had done so.

(Although, Harlan himself literally verbalized it in that interview for 'Dreams With Sharp Teeth'! Then again, a statement like that floating around on a website...)

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Postby Douglas Harrison » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:41 pm

I thought I had a good understanding of the Katrina crisis, but that article turned my blood to ice water. If half of it is accurate, the moral failure on the part of the administration is unforgivable.

Once again, Bush comes across as detached, poorly informed, and fucking careless. A president who saves his concern for himself.

D.

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Postby Douglas Harrison » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:52 pm

Douglas Harrison wrote:I thought I had a good understanding of the Katrina crisis, but that article turned my blood to ice water.

Yes, I suddenly became incredibly cool under pressure. Which should come in handy while I now try to elude the Mixed-Metaphor Police.

D.

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Postby Chuck Messer » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:37 pm

As Brian Siano once said about Rumsfeld, I hope Rove gets brain cancer and dies screaming.

Where's V when you need him?

Chuck
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:36 am

Well I certainly understand the ill feelings towards the Bush crew and the cries for auto-da-fe...

However...

What about Colin Powell whose "loyalty" to his boss apparently trumped his loyalty to the truth and to the Constitution?

What about all the Demos who went along and gave Bush his blank check?

What about the members of the media who, moistened fingers aloft, took note of which way the wind blew?

What about Bush's 80% apporoval rating in 2003?

The bastards only get away with what they're allowed to get away with.

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Postby Barney Dannelke » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:12 am

What about Colin Powell whose "loyalty" to his boss apparently trumped his loyalty to the truth and to the Constitution?


Yes, but that was no surprise. He's been doing that sort of dirty work since at least 1968.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html

Anybody who didn't know that he was the go to liar / point man for whatever the administration in charge needed lying about wasn't following his career closely enough. After you've found NO wrongdoing at My Lai ...

"In direct refutation of this is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." - Powell 12/13/68

what lie wouldn't you be willing to sell to the American people?

What about all the Demos who went along and gave Bush his blank check?

What about the members of the media who, moistened fingers aloft, took note of which way the wind blew?

What about Bush's 80% apporoval rating in 2003?


80%? When the hell was that? The morning after "shock and awe?"

I suppose somewhere someone did a poll that coughed that up - but I can't imagine anywhere outside of a gated community in Orange County where that would be a real number. He's been polling in the low thirties for almost two years now. There are arguments that polling techniques and polling math are different enough now that it would be almost impossible to score the 28% Nixon polled the week he resigned. Maybe if he dropped a baby out a window on live television right before dipping it in a barrel of crude and setting it on fire with a burning copy of the constitution - but other than that - I don't know. We're clearly all too jaded now.

As for congress and the media and their complicity - sure - but in a brief moment of congressional defense (VERY brief) - I think it's fair that the Congress ought to be able to assume that the Commander in Chief is not ACTIVELY lying to them to get what he wants. He may have a bias, an agenda if you will - but STARTING with willful deception and working out from there 24/7 is some new gold standard of lack of presidential integrity that I believe even Nixon would have choked on. Not Kissinger mind you, but Nixon. Nixon was evil, but conflicted. Bush suffers NO internal conflict on these many fronts.

My point is ignorance and failure to commit only make you stupid and weak.

Spending your U.S. tax dollars to create a *** MOTHERFUCKING SET PIECE ILLUSION *** of fixing a levee while Americans are drowning in their attics and floating down streets as bloated rotting corpses - well friends, Clive Barker and Stephen King and Ann Rule have got some catching up to do on the new definition of Evil as near as I can tell.

- Barney Dannelke
History is a vast early warning system. -Norman Cousins (1915-1990)

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Postby Moderator » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:14 am

I agree with 90% of your post, Barney. The 10% deals with Colin Powell, but to save everyone the angst of my disagreement -- and I'll claim some direct knowledge of the man and what you read is not exactly irrefutable -- I won't get into that with you. My support of the military's role in this country doesn't seem to agree with the rest of you so we'lll leave it at that.

As far as the rest of what Bush and company have inflicted upon this country, I'm right with you. I don't see any way the children of this newest generation can have anything like the sort of lives we've lived -- and I attribute a huge part of that to this government's policies for the last eight years.

We, as Americans, are unliked in much of the world now. Our dollar is nearly worthless. Our policies are disdained. Our economy lies near ruin. The jobs that are available are not manufacturing-based. Our debt is owned by our philosophical enemies. The ends now justify the means. Passersby ignore accident victims because they "don't want to get involved" or worse, are worried they'll be sued. Oh, and soon we will be required to present "papers" to vote.

Sounds a whole lot like the dystopian societies from 1960s science fiction, no? Or, as mentioned above, V's Britain.

I'm normally an optimistic guy, but the Bush Administration has driven America to the brink of irrelevance, and thereby trashed the future of us all.

How anyone who has kids today can stomach his policies -- or his party -- is beyond the pale. They are the traitors.
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Postby Douglas Harrison » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:24 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:What about the members of the media who, moistened fingers aloft, took note of which way the wind blew?

I've decided it's unrealistic to expect the mainstream media to cover the news in any way that challenges the status quo, since the last word on coverage is corporate. Thankfully, the internet has made it easier--for those who can access it--to find alternative news sources, and that convenience has helped (along with a number of other factors) to diminish the audience for network news. Reading and viewing coverage outside the mainstream is crucial to escaping the narcotizing effects of spin. (I also recommend exposing kids to satire at a young age, so they grow up not taking the bastards seriously.)

Unplug yer tv! (That was for you, Ez.)

D.

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Postby Moderator » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:45 am

BTW - Lest anyone think I give the military a pass on what I consider illegal activities, I don't.

I just don't think they are guilty of some of the run-of-the-mill post-60s anti-military rhetorical "crimes" we've discussed. If you're going to point fingers at the military, make it for things like this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/08/AR2008060801890.html?hpid=moreheadlines
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Postby markabaddon » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:48 am

Barney, let us be clear, BUsh could have sexual relations with a ficus on the lawn of the white house and a solid 30% of the nation would say: gee, it looks like he is embracing the environment.

Powell has done more of a mea culpa than any other figure in the administration has done. He followed the chain of command, believed the information he trusted had been vetted properly, and got burned for it. His reputation, the one thing other than his family that means the most to him, has been tarnished and he knows it. To paraphrase Marlowe in Doctor Faustus "why this is hell, nor have I left it". Don't pile on the man any more he is suffering enough and is well aware of his role in selling this illegal war

Barber, the situation is bleak right now, I grant you but it is not irreparable. One of the first things Obama must do when entering the White House is to restore confidence in America her and abroad. The weakness of the dollar is killing us in a myriad of eays, from an increase in the price of goods to unfavorable lending rates. Americans and foreigners need to be convinced that the US government is willing to get itself back in shape, otherwise a widepspread financial collapse could occur within 2-3 years.

Douglas, the mainstream media is bad, but part of it was also a mood of the times. You still had companies like McClatchy who called out the administration on their excesses (and were punished by the administration as a result), but they were much fewer because there was a sense that the public did not want to hear criticism. Please note, I am not defending this policy, merely repeating it.

However, their power is greatly diminishing as more people get their news from the web and their reach/influence is growing exponentially. However, spin is still mighty prevalent on the web, you are just able to find alternate viewpoints easily.
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Postby Douglas Harrison » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:09 am

Barber wrote:I'm normally an optimistic guy, but the Bush Administration has driven America to the brink of irrelevance, and thereby trashed the future of us all.

One thing that bothers me is that a lot of North Americans don't seem to appreciate how well and truly fucked the economy is. Gas over $4 a gallon? That should be no surprise to anyone. A continued housing crisis? Look at the years of crazy building and debt. Absolutely enormous military costs taking away dollars needed for infrastructure, healthcare reform, environmental programs, etc., etc., etc.? Steadily increasing unemployment?

Bush is the worst president since Buchanan. Perhaps the worst ever.

The American economy will continue to slow and will take the Canadian and Mexican economies (among others) with it. The poor will starve in larger numbers, the gap between the haves and have-nots will increase, and we will all have to fight harder to control our destinies.

D.


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