Bullshit Racist Obama Major Media Slam Jambaroo

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Postby Moderator » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:03 pm

Slight deviance of the general topic, but it's related.

I've been doing some reading on William Ayers, the so-called "domestic terrorist" that McCain has been hammering Obama over. I had become curious as to why this person who is constantly accused of bombing American targets is not rotting in jail somewhere instead of teaching at a university. Obviously this means a lot of reading about The Weather Underground as well as the Prairie Fire group.

There is no question in my mind that Ayers was, in one form or another, a "terrorist". But, given the tenor of the times, and the illegal tactics used by a jackbooted Nixon administration, it looks like they were never accused of terrorism in court. (This explains how people can label him a terrorist without fear of a lawsuit.)

But one other observation: The prosecution of Weather Underground was compromised by actions on the part of the FBI, including "warrantless wiretapping" and "warrantless breakins". The Nixon administration argued that "in cases of national security, such actions were permissible under the law".

"***"

Does this sound familiar?

We're not supposed to call them Nazis, but maybe we can insert "brownshirts" instead?
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Postby Moderator » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:11 pm

I'd also like to add that our buddy Frank Church would probably appreciate the founding philosophies of the original group...
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:23 pm

For instance sometimes I'll flip over to BET but I have to turn it off ...

Barney thou art not far from the Kingdom of Heaven, as a famous Palestinian rabble-rouser once said.

First you turn off a particular show. Then you turn off a particular channel. Then you switch the TV off. Then you push it down a flight of stairs.

Then you're free.

Sure sometimes you'll wonder if you're missing something. But then you'll look in the paper at the listings and you'll find CELEBRITY REHAB and then you'll know you chose wisely.

And then suddenly you'll realize that you have lived the TV free life for 10 count'em 10 years.

I accept your congratulations!

Now go and sin no more.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:44 pm

Did Barber just say I may support terrorism?

The FBI went after the Weather Underground as an excuse to go after the mainstream black movements and legal political parties. This is why the project Cointelpro is much more important than the keystone cop shenanigans called Watergate.

In effect, the illegal actions of the government somewhat egged on the actions of the extreme left. I believe the government wanted someone to do terrorism as a reason to stop the left movements, which they did.

This started the Me Generation. Political radicalism was squashed. This is why the black community is dead in that regard.

Non-violence is always the right way to go, unless you are dealing with a police state. We came close in the 60s.

Ayers is no hero, but he is no evil man either.

Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn did it the right way.

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Postby Steve Evil » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:08 pm

I rather liked Abbie Hoffman's way.

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Postby robochrist » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:21 pm

Frank, knowing you you'll be proud to hear this, but of ALL the wildlife that hangs out here YOU, more than anyone I can think of, would have made a MODEL Weatherman!

It's in your genes!

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Postby cynic » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:42 am

Steve Evil wrote:I rather liked Abbie Hoffman's way.


steve,

on public tv,Independendant Lens "chicago ten"will give a taste of styles of 2 "Hoffmans". The 1968 chicago democratic convention,and the trial that ensued.achival footage and court transcripts reenacted.

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/

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Help Please

Postby Peggy » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:51 am

First - Can anyone direct me to a site that gives something approaching factual descriptions of the ACORN / Freddie Mac /Fannie Mae connections? I've tried googling and get nothing but loads of conservative sites that read more like propaganda than journalism.

While I have no problem believing there may be some dirt there, I prefer to get it cold and straight. I don't want any candidate bashing or glorification, just some basics.

Second - I would *love* to see a top 10 list of "Negative propaganda that isn't true" about *both* candidates. Thoughts?
"And if you're like me, you need hope, coffee and melody..." - Robbie Seay Band, "New Day"

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Postby David Loftus » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:00 am

It's nice to be out of the middle of the fray. I've seen only very gentle, pleasant ads for Obama and nothing for McCain on television here in Oregon.

The U.S. Senate campaign is ugly, however. You'll get two or three ads IN A ROW, and there's no escape if you go channel surfing.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Re: Help Please

Postby Moderator » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:08 am

Peggy wrote:Second - I would *love* to see a top 10 list of "Negative propaganda that isn't true" about *both* candidates. Thoughts?


I agree.

Though being more than slightly biased, I would bet solid money that the majority of Obama negatives would be policy-based, while the majority of McCain's would be character-driven.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:24 pm

"I would *love* to see a top 10 list of "Negative propaganda that isn't true" about *both* candidates. Thoughts?"

First, I'm ALL for negative ads against McCain and the Conservatives, since that's the game the Republicans constantly play. I'm tired of Democrats being "nice and civil", expecting the public to "catch on", thereby getting cheated out of every election.

Secondly, it's my understanding - since I've seen so few ads myself - that MOST of Obama's negative ads are not factual distortions or, at worst, 'tweek' a stat here and there, whereas (no KIDDING!) McCain's ads are blatant bullshit lies (as are all Republican campaign ads).

Finally, if there are more of Obama's ads that go further than I'd realized in factual distortions, all I can say it isn't necessary. There is SO, SOOOOOOOOOOO much McCain and the Conservatives have done to destroy EVERYTHING, providing all the ammo you could possibly need. Obama doesn't NEED to distort the facts; conversely, McCain DOES need to!

But, frankly, I'm convinced 95% of Obama's ads are dead on with the facts. 90% of McCain's ads are lies and spin and diversion. The latter being such, I COMPLETELY defend Obama's ad campaign (I even emailed several urgings to his people about this).

I'm more troubled by a different question: that ever-typical double standard, whereby, we hear relatively few outcries when the Republicans pull this shit in every campaign, but when the Dems do it, suddenly it's, "OK, guys. MELLOW!"

Well, FUCK that shit!

Given all this, I hope Obama keeps the relentless ads going straight to November 4th. When you're confronted with THIS much corruption, and SO much media control by Conservatives, you HAVE to keep a strong offense.

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Postby Peggy » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:57 pm

Rob,

You misunderstand my purpose. I have no problem with the democratic party campaign playing hardball (preferably without distortion). I'm not talking about campaign ads though.

I'm talking about the circulating populist propaganda that isn't necessarily official campaign material. Obama's a muslim, his birth certificate is fake, etc. I agree more of it is centered on Obama but there are John McCain/Sarah Palin elements as well (even if more benign).

I simply get tired of people not checking facts and propagating this stuff. I find when I take the effort to check, the fact are usually far less sensationalist than either side or the media makes them out to be. I just don't have time to invesitage all of them on both sides.

Peggy
"And if you're like me, you need hope, coffee and melody..." - Robbie Seay Band, "New Day"

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Postby FrankChurch » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:11 pm

Peggy shows us why we need a 35 hour work week, paid vacations and more time for ourselves. Finding information takes long stretches of time that most people just don't have.

Europe has it right, people.

Here's your Acorn info:

http://www.alternet.org/democracy/10255 ... out_acorn/

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Peggy
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Postby Peggy » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:39 pm

Frank - thanks, but I'm looking for background on the ACORN / Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac connections.

(I've already found good info the ACORN/ voter fraud item, and from far less partisan sources).
"And if you're like me, you need hope, coffee and melody..." - Robbie Seay Band, "New Day"

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Postby robochrist » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:41 pm

"You misunderstand my purpose."

In this case, yeah - I thought you were referring to the campaign ads.


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