Conservative Denseness

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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robochrist
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Conservative Denseness

Postby robochrist » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:39 pm

Would someone like to tell Tom Galloway, that while he insists on being dense and clueless, to do a little research before typing another myopic, stupid-ass post?

What I would all ALL Conservatives to do, as they're resistant to learning: herd themselves into the southern states, secede from the union, live the way the want in their own land, and leave the rest of us to the civilized and rational world we prefer.

May the next dumb fuck walk the plank. (Steve Evil isn't the only one short on patience; I just like to take the frustration a little further)

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Postby Anthony Ravenscroft » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:59 pm

You're far more generous than me, dude.

Twenty years ago, I proposed giving 'em Idaho, eastern Washington & Oregon, & whatever bits of western Wyoming & montana nobody else wants. Then surrounding it with the Vietnam vets Reagan put out on the street, living in well-stocked FEMA trailers & all the ammo they want, & order not to shoot any immigrants but putting a bounty on escapees.

But I'm easily amused.

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Postby robochrist » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:58 pm

I have no problem with that proposal whatsoever!

rich

Postby rich » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:18 am

And I'm sure Tom Galloway is just dying to debate with the Larry and Curly of the boards. Frank is Moe. I know, I know...some of you will say that Rob is Joe, but, since Joe never existed (says I), he will be Curly. I will not argue about this.

The meat of Tom's contention, though, does deserve some comment other than condescending remarks on the Pavvy, and outright insults in this thread.

Bottomline: Tom has a point. Economic considerations must be taken into account when discussing health care.

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Postby Moderator » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:47 am

Actually, Tom has an extremely valid point. TANSTAAFL: "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch".

But the point being made by our Canadian friends is that in times of dire need, they weren't turned away because they had no money. Now, the same is true of some areas of the states which happen to have the sort of clinic Rob went to in West LA -- but the quality of care varies according to mileage, blah, blah...

The Canadian system isn't free. It's paid for. But it is not only universal coverage, it's paid for by community effort. By conservative (no pun intended) estimate, I pay $750 a year for my wife's coverage (not including dental, so add another hundred). And that is relatively cheap. And there are things not covered, a reasonably high deductable, and a $25 copay.

My question is: per citizen, how much does it cost the "typical" Canadian taxpayer for their coverage?
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Postby David Loftus » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:54 am

robochrist wrote:I have no problem with that proposal whatsoever!



I DO!

Oregon's a beautiful state, with lots of progressives who enjoy the forests, rivers, lakes, ocean, skiing, vineyards, and so on, and will actually lift a finger to keep 'em that way. We like it here, and we don't wany any more conservatives mucking it up than we already have.

Keep 'em in Idaho and Montana. Give 'em Wyoming and Utah and Nevada, if you have to.

But please leave Ecotopia a little longer.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Postby Moderator » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:22 am

HOLD IT!

Wyoming's got Yellowstone, and Nevada's got Vegas -- both of which should stay in a free state society. Utah and Montana got plenty of open area for the incoming settlers.

I'm gonna go back to my endorsement of California secession, however. And in that case, Oregon, Washington, Nevada and Arizona are invited to the party.

(I'd include New Mexico in the list, but I have the feeling the Feds would have enough heartburn losing Vandenberg and Area 51 to ever let Los Alamos go).
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Postby robochrist » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:06 am

Alright! Alright! It's back to the South with 'em then!

Besides, in afterthought I realized the South is still a focus of freakdom - particularly with Texas and Florida (Land of the Stolen Votes...which SHOULD be on their license plates now). I have a friend who grew up in that region - he's black - and he's been shaking me out of my white reality, informing me about the extent of the shit that goes on down 'yere.

Yeah, herd 'em to the South, n' let 'em secede!

Incidentally, any moron (if you're below that - forget it!) could figure out , my use of the term "FREE" was relative. You go in the clinic and get whatever prescription you need without worrying about the variable cost as you do when you go in to a Pharmacy - not to mention that for treatment from a doctor. The COST is negligible - less a burden of worry - because we paid for it with our taxes (plus, they also get ample donations over there), and the distribution makes the expense unnoticeable. I will re-emphasize the large private donors, however, to this clinic which also lifts the cost a bit. Remember, quite a few people in that place have NOOOOOOO money whatsoever; they wouldn't be able to afford a doctor ANYWHERE.

I had to use that clinic for the last 3 years, and I owe'em a lot. They even do a good job in providing therapeutic counseling, whether it's in a drug program or victims of depression (including thoughts of suicide).

It fuckin' WORKS! It works when you don't cut funds so that other clinics have to close down!

(BTW, you guys DON'T wanna know what I got, and why I had to run to the clinic in such a frenzy. Never had anything like it before in my life. Hint: it burned and itched like hell, and left black spots)

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Postby Moderator » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:20 am

<-------------- And what's wrong with black spots?????
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:42 am

Alright! Alright! It's back to the South with 'em then!

Mississippi, that's what it's for.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Postby Moderator » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:58 am

Okay, but only if we grant special territorial status -- think "Hong Kong" to both the Big Easy and the Conch Republic.
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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:31 pm

The real problem with most conservatives on this issue - I think - I mean, other than their genetic deficiencies, is not that they really think the system couldn't work; they just have to get around saying outright, "I have coverage. I don't NEED clinics. Why should I pay anything more for something I don't need myself?"

Contributing to the betterment of society, collectively, is something they utterly oppose and consider a great imposition. "Why contribute my time and money to something that has nothing to do with ME?"

Hence, success of the long deceptive rhetoric from the Reagan era of eliminating government "from our lives" - leading to what I believe is a conscious effort to destroy government by bankrupting the system and replacing it entirely with corporate enterprise - reviving the era of the robber barons of the 1880s and the 1920s.

That is Reagan's legacy...and it worries me deeply.

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Postby robochrist » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:39 pm

"and it worries me deeply"

I think I may have sounded a little to frail and pathetic just then. NEVER expose such weakness to the enemy!

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Postby LarryF » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:45 pm

I, too, weary of hearing conservatives jabber about how universal health care isn't really "free." Of course we pay for it with taxes; but what we liberals are referring to is that you don't get stuck, all at once, with a humongous bill. How would conservatives like it if, when their house is on fire, firefighters arrive and ask to get paid before putting out the fire? Communal support of various organizations that serve the commonweal is certainly nothing new. I just hope that a majority of Americans will finally realize that universal health care is one of those rights to which all of us are entitled.

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Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:34 pm

Larry

This gets back to something I said in another thread. Most truly conservative persons believe in something a friend of mine and I have taken to calling social darwinism

To make a long story short, they believe that if you're poor its a show of weakness, and OFW, as long as they are getting theirs it's ok that you aren't getting yours.

Something to think about though. Are we lumping people in this group who really want to help people, and be cost effective while doing it. My father is a good example of this. He dosen't mind paying higher taxes, but prove to him that the money will be well spent, and that EVERYONE will benifit. When we talk about this subject, he's worried that his healtcare will be adversely affect, and I think he's got a right to worry about that.

IMHO instead of a totally socalized system, why not make basic healthcare free and available to all whom cannot afford it, and if you wanna pay more that would be fine too. Just think of all the elective procedures that would be effectivly stopped. Only that which is important to health and well being would be paid for. Sounds like a plan to me. If you can convince the right people that a nose job is important to your health, the you ought to get one!

I know it's just a pipe dream, but without those what good is living anyways?
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