SCIENCE VS RELIGION

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:15 pm

My man Spong really took it to the Catholics. Wow.

I also found out the Christian church is the most anti-semitic.

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:04 pm

FrankChurch wrote:
I also found out the Christian church is the most anti-semitic.


Well, duh.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:45 am

Don't blame Christ blame the believers.

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:51 am

FrankChurch wrote:Don't blame Christ blame the believers.


I don't. And...I do. 8)

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FinderDoug
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FinderDoug » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:58 pm

I also found out the Christian church is the most anti-semitic.
Yeah?

Which one?

I ask because according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity, as of 2012, there were an estimated 43,000 different Christian denominations.

The Catholics are a Christian church.
The Seventh-day Adventists are a Christian church.
The United Methodists are a Christian church.
The Southern Baptist Convention is a Christian church.
The African Methodist Episcopalians are a Christian church.
The Branch Davidians - who still exist - are a Christian church.
Joel Osteen Ministries, the Christian Life Community Church, the Bread of Life Family Fellowship and over 90 other different non-denominational congregations here in Houston are Christian churches.
And so on.

34,000 separate entities, some with three dozen members, some with million, all of them approaching Christianity from a similar foundation, but all with very different worship structures, methods, tangential beliefs, missions, outreach, goals - and personalities.

"The Christian church" isn't a thing. That's just gibberish. You, as a self-proclaimed Christian, should already know that.

So really - WHICH Christian church?

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Rick Keeney
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Rick Keeney » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:26 pm

FinderDoug wrote:
I also found out the Christian church is the most anti-semitic.
Yeah?

Which one?

I ask because according to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity, as of 2012, there were an estimated 43,000 different Christian denominations.

The Catholics are a Christian church.
The Seventh-day Adventists are a Christian church.
The United Methodists are a Christian church.
The Southern Baptist Convention is a Christian church.
The African Methodist Episcopalians are a Christian church.
The Branch Davidians - who still exist - are a Christian church.
Joel Osteen Ministries, the Christian Life Community Church, the Bread of Life Family Fellowship and over 90 other different non-denominational congregations here in Houston are Christian churches.
And so on.

34,000 separate entities, some with three dozen members, some with million, all of them approaching Christianity from a similar foundation, but all with very different worship structures, methods, tangential beliefs, missions, outreach, goals - and personalities.

"The Christian church" isn't a thing. That's just gibberish. You, as a self-proclaimed Christian, should already know that.

So really - WHICH Christian church?



I think what we're looking for here is the HEY! Look What I Just Pulled Outta My Butt Christian Church

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:26 pm

There is no true Christians. So many of them take too much of the bible literally. Until that time Christianity will be a flawed religion.

Frank Church Christianity, the one to look for.

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Ben W.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ben W. » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:55 pm

Care to discuss why Roman Catholicism rather than one of its myriad of competitors?


It made the most sense to me. Not so much the less-than-ethical practices of its past (and sometimes its present), which are inevitable in almost every religion, but the core ideology. That's all I'd prefer to say about it.

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Steve Evil
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:13 am

FrankChurch wrote:There is no true Christians. So many of them take too much of the bible literally. Until that time Christianity will be a flawed religion.

Frank Church Christianity, the one to look for.


You mean the Frank Church :wink:

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FinderDoug
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FinderDoug » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:34 am

There is no true Christians. So many of them take too much of the bible literally. Until that time Christianity will be a flawed religion.
I'm reminded of Matthew 7:1-3 and Strunk & White 1:9; never minding what "time" you're referring to in the final sentence, since you relate that to nothing else in your post.

Even your generalities are degenerating.

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Rick Keeney
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Rick Keeney » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:42 am

Are we talking Frank of the Church's Christian inanity?

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:58 am

Frank posted over in the political thread

Karen Armstrong has studied if violence is higher among religions. Her evidence is that states are more violent than religious terrorism. States, religious based or not are violent.

The Secular turks killed a million Armenians. Allah does not have that high of a score card.

She made a good point about Isis--they are such skilled fighters. Religious people tend to be bad fighters. Secularism and war go together.

One ISIS member was led to Islam through reading Islam for Dummies.


Frank, I've read enough of your posts to realize the opinions you share from other folks are filtered through your own particular sensibility, but I have read enough of Ms Armstrong's other work not to be surprised at her conclusions. Armstrong is what is known in the skeptic community (such as it is) as a "Faitheist". A Faitheist is an unbeliever who believes not in god but in belief. I'm much too sophisticated to be a believer myself but other people need religion so it's important - for them. I can only speak for myself but when I was a believer I would have found this kind of condescension insufferable.

This response is to you since I haven't read the book.

States, religious based or not are violent. You seem to be saying that religion has no positive effect on society. Is that really your opinion? What happens to the claim that religion is in touch with some higher reality? If your beliefs don't inform your actions then what's the point?

No one expects every member of ISIS to be a theologian any more than we would expect every Christian sitting in the pew to be. But you genuinely believe in your religion, right? Why do you think the members of ISIS aren't equally sincere?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:06 pm

Sincere immorality does not fly.

By the fruits you will know them.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:06 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Sincere immorality does not fly.

By the fruits you will know them.



And by their fruits, I and a lot of others have come to the conclusion that there is no God.

You sure assume a hell of a lot for the other side. This despite the fact that we've all tried to explain our points of view to you.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:23 pm

Lori, ah, you do notice I am dissing my people, not yours.


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