SCIENCE VS RELIGION

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Mark Tiedemann
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:09 am

diane bartels wrote:Wonder what you guys though about this and about whether there can be spirituality without a specific mention of a Deity. I think there is and can be. Wondered what you guys thought.


The simple answer is, Of course.

But more fully, spirituality is essentially our ability to respond to what can be called the Numinous. When I'm listening to Beethoven's 7th symphony or gazing at Ansel Adams's "Moonrise Over Hernandez" I am fully engaged in a spiritual experience. I actually think focusing on a deity limits this, as it predetermines our range of response and preselects what is "appropriate."

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:00 pm

I'd say without a spiritual focus you would never have the ability to paint like that or make music like that...

The hummingbird comports beauty as beauty melds the center of what melds our humanity.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:54 pm

diane bartels wrote:Today the Dahli Lama said something on Facebook that was both surprising and true, just unexpected. I am paraphrasing but here goes: though the words of the major religions talk about love and peace and justice, etc. it is now necessary in today's world to ground ethics, morality and sprituality in something besides religion. He didn't get specific. But I think he is thinking of the decline in attendence and practice in most religions, the growth of science, and the younger generations' tendency not to take things in blind faith. Wonder what you guys though about this and about whether there can be spirituality without a specific mention of a Deity. I think there is and can be. Wondered what you guys thought.


The Dalai Lama has also stated that if the conclusions of science contradict any of the doctrines of Buddhism then he would have to abandon the doctrine. (Whether he says that to his own followers who can tell?)

My problem with the word "spiritual" is all the baggage it carries along with it. The host of associations it brings to the conversation. I feel awe and wonder. I identify with my fellows and feel compassion. Does this make me spiritual?

FrankChurch wrote:I'd say without a spiritual focus you would never have the ability to paint like that or make music like that...

The hummingbird comports beauty as beauty melds the center of what melds our humanity.


What "spiritual focus" does a hummingbird have? Its beauty is a natural byproduct of its biology. It just exists. What makes you think that humans are any different than hummingbirds?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:30 pm

We have the awful situation in Libya and fucking Israel has to sabre rattle now about Iran. I wish we had a leader who would stand up to the holy state.

I was proud of Joe Klein today on Morning Joe for saying that Netanyahu was nutty and Iran is a sane country. Even if they had a bomb they would not use it.

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:36 pm

FrankChurch wrote: I was proud of Joe Klein today on Morning Joe for saying that Netanyahu was nutty and Iran is a sane country. Even if they had a bomb they would not use it.


By that measure, every nation that's ever had one (besides us) has been sane and we know that's not true.
(And actually I suppose you could say by that metric, Pakistan is insane, since they used it in a way---selling it.) I agree with the first part, but he has no basis on which to make the second claim. We don't know what Iran will do, even though they've alluded to certain goals from time to time.

You shouldn't assume a nation's innocence based on whether or not Israel is their enemy.

diane bartels
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby diane bartels » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:12 pm

Mark and Ezra, thank you for your responses.

Iran is a sane country? Iran stones women to death for being raped. If that is "sane" I don't want to see Frank's crazy.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:08 am

They're not suicidal, how about that?

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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby diane bartels » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:15 am

Nope sorry Frank, for my money, Iran is still crazier than a bedbug.

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Chuck Messer
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Chuck Messer » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:29 pm

Well, their leadership is crazy. The Iranians themselves I think have long realized they got themselves in a mess when they let the Ayatolahs have the reins of power. Now, I think they wish the madmen would let go. They won't, not without someone breaking their fingers. Power can have that kind of effect on people.

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Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:08 pm

That's right I'm looking at YOU!

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... esula.jpeg

Interesting article by David Byrne on how the environment affects music.

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/16/david_b ... ith_sound/

The Fountains of Enceladus! Has a ring to it.

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ ... into-space

Cool photo from the Curiosity Rover of a partial solar eclipse by Phobos one of the moons of Barsoo- I mean Mars.

http://twitpic.com/auxt3k

Here's Pi calculated to a thousand decimal places-

3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460 95505822317253594081284811174502841027019385211055596446229489549303819644288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091456485 66923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384 14695194151160943305727036575959195309218611738193261179310511854807446237996274956735188575272489122793818301194912983367336244 06566430860213949463952247371907021798609437027705392171762931767523846748184676694051320005681271452635608277857713427577896091 73637178721468440901224953430146549585371050792279689258923542019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998 37297804995105973173281609631859502445945534690830264252230825334468503526193118817101000313783875288658753320838142061717766914 7303598253490428755468731159562863882353787593751957781857780532171226806613001927876611195909216420198

And you thought you couldn't learn anything on this BB huh?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Ben W.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ben W. » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:35 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:Here's Pi calculated to a thousand decimal places-

3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460 95505822317253594081284811174502841027019385211055596446229489549303819644288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091456485 66923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384 14695194151160943305727036575959195309218611738193261179310511854807446237996274956735188575272489122793818301194912983367336244 06566430860213949463952247371907021798609437027705392171762931767523846748184676694051320005681271452635608277857713427577896091 73637178721468440901224953430146549585371050792279689258923542019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998 37297804995105973173281609631859502445945534690830264252230825334468503526193118817101000313783875288658753320838142061717766914 7303598253490428755468731159562863882353787593751957781857780532171226806613001927876611195909216420198


Sort of sounds like the ravings of a math junkie. "Come on, man, I need my binary quadratic equations!! Gimme my binary quadratic equations!! Just read 'em to me, man, READ 'EM TO ME!! Oh. Oh, yeah, that's the stuffffffffffffffff..."

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:47 pm

I saw a guy wearing a t-shirt: "God doesn't believe in atheists."

:lol:

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Steve Evil
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:24 pm

You sure they're all correct?

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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Moderator » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:58 pm

Steve Evil wrote:You sure they're all correct?



There's a mistake in the fourth line down, six digits in. That should be a zero.

(Bazinga!)


(Channeling my inner Sheldon.)
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:17 pm

I knew it was a good investment when I bought that copy of CUT AND PASTE FOR DUMMIES!

Actually I thought you'd be more impressed by Enceladus.

Sorry Ben can't do quadratic equations. That's not in the Bible.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter


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