SCIENCE VS RELIGION

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Steve Evil
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Steve Evil » Thu May 03, 2012 2:23 am

Ben W. wrote:THE RAPTURE (1991).


Oh yes, very profound, deeply disturbing film. I think, if they could ge past the sex and the nudity, the fundies would have less problem with it that liberals would. It was quite a shock to my well ordered sytem.

It's been years since I've seen it, but if I remember correctly, (and I hope I'm not throwing out any SPOILERS here) I think the Rogers character reflected the conflict going on in many people's hearts. She deeply wanted to believe, indeed did believe for the most part, but just could not bring herself to love what she believed. Not even when God himself starred her in the face.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Thu May 03, 2012 10:26 am

Sex and nudity! Keep talking.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Thu May 03, 2012 10:33 am

Steve E and Ben and whoever wants a few minutes of amusement, look at the reviews of the DVD on the Amazon site.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Rapture-Mimi- ... 375&sr=1-2

Seems like a few upright christian folk snagged the movie without first looking at the fine print. Thought it was another LEFT BEHIND "end-times" flick. Whoops!

Somebody call 911! Sister Rosa's having a conniption!
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Steve Evil
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Steve Evil » Thu May 03, 2012 1:15 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:Seems like a few upright christian folk snagged the movie without first looking at the fine print.


Shocking.

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Ben W.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ben W. » Thu May 03, 2012 2:41 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:Steve E and Ben and whoever wants a few minutes of amusement, look at the reviews of the DVD on the Amazon site.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Rapture-Mimi- ... 375&sr=1-2

Seems like a few upright christian folk snagged the movie without first looking at the fine print. Thought it was another LEFT BEHIND "end-times" flick. Whoops!

Somebody call 911! Sister Rosa's having a conniption!


Mimi Rogers is a scientologist? Damn it, and I was just starting to fall in love with her... :cry:

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Lori Koonce
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Fri May 04, 2012 11:14 am

Ben W

She's a beautiful woman, despite her religion.

Now, I'll probably get busted for this, but put a bal gag in her mouth and love away...

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Fri May 04, 2012 12:13 pm

Runz.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sun May 06, 2012 1:58 am

Sometimes Bozo drops his pants...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/05/us/tb ... .html?_r=3

Relevant quotes:

Mr. and Mrs. Crouch have his-and-her mansions one street apart in a gated community here, provided by the network using viewer donations and tax-free earnings. But Mrs. Crouch, 74, rarely sleeps in the $5.6 million house with tennis court and pool. She mostly lives in a large company house near Orlando, Fla., where she runs a side business, the Holy Land Experience theme park. Mr. Crouch, 78, has an adjacent home there too, but rarely visits. Its occupant is often a security guard who doubles as Mrs. Crouch’s chauffeur.

Extolling TBN’s prominence and programs, Mr. May said the spending that some call opulent “is necessary to convey the ministry’s position of accomplishment.”

“Others may do things differently, and may criticize TBN for how it operates, its look, its doctrine and belief,” Mr. May said. “But what is absolutely clear is that TBN, with God’s grace, has succeeded where most others have failed.”

Unintentionally hilarious quote:

"Prosperity theology is a false theology,” said R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky. Between its message and its reputation for high spending, Mr. Mohler said, “TBN has been a huge embarrassment to evangelical Christianity for decades.”

But let's not sneer at the gullible hicks.

Palace of the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury, England-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambeth_Palace

The Pope’s Palace-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Palace

Clearly JESUS, INC is weathering these hard economic times with aplomb and panache.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Chuck Messer
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Chuck Messer » Sun May 06, 2012 3:26 am

Clearly JESUS, INC is weathering these hard economic times with aplomb and panache.


And has been for a l-o-o-o-ong time.

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Mon May 07, 2012 12:47 pm

Ezra, you forgot to mention the White House. I like Rowan, he walks the talk, unlike the TBN hicks.

Jesus came down as a lowly carpenter, walked with the filth of the earth, became them. Died naked on a cross, drunk vinegar, broke his back with blood seeping out of him. No, he is one of us.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon May 07, 2012 8:15 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Ezra, you forgot to mention the White House. I like Rowan, he walks the talk, unlike the TBN hicks.

Jesus came down as a lowly carpenter, walked with the filth of the earth, became them. Died naked on a cross, drunk vinegar, broke his back with blood seeping out of him. No, he is one of us.


Well Frank I'll leave it to you to romanticize the brutal way Jesus died, which really had nothing to do with his teachings. For example,

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. 20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
-Mark 10:17-25


Why were the disciples "astonished at his words"? Because the first century Jews had the same idea that 21st century Americans do, that material wealth is a sign of god's favor. That's clear enough isn't it? I don't pretend to be a christian. I would merely point out that anyone who claims to be a christian and doesn't follow the teachings of Jesus is only pretending to be a christian.

ps While I'm preaching here brethren and cistern read over verse 18 until the implications of what Jesus says sinks in! Isn't he saying he's not perfect and he's not god? Jes askin' :wink:
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon May 07, 2012 9:19 pm

Judaism of that period (and before, and for Orthodox, still) had no prohibition against material wealth, true, and to some extent viewed it as a sign of god's favor, but---it also required of a good, observant Jew that he walk away from all his belongings every seven years and start over.

Obviously, this was rarely observed.

But the point was that the accumulation of wealth becomes an anchor and the difficulty a wealthy man will have is not fitting through the needle's eye but in letting go.

BTW, the translation of that last passage is now known to be "...easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle..."

Sloppy translations get hung up on words that are similar but not the same.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue May 08, 2012 9:10 am

Judaism of that period (and before, and for Orthodox, still) had no prohibition against material wealth, true, and to some extent viewed it as a sign of god's favor, but---it also required of a good, observant Jew that he walk away from all his belongings every seven years and start over.

Obviously, this was rarely observed.


Or they would finess it by passing their property to another member of the family.

But the point was that the accumulation of wealth becomes an anchor and the difficulty a wealthy man will have is not fitting through the needle's eye but in letting go.

And I think there is a practical aspect to it as well. The early Jesus movement seems to have been an apocalyptic "drop-out" cult that literally expected the Kingdom of God to be established on earth sooner rather than later. Jesus was attempting to create a kingdom community (not a church) in anticipation of it. To qualify for this community you must first purge yourself of all social obligations, including wealth. Perhaps especially wealth since Jesus continually privileged the poor and the lower classes. Go tell Mitt!

BTW, the translation of that last passage is now known to be "...easier for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle..."

Sloppy translations get hung up on words that are similar but not the same.


-sigh- True but it kills one of the great images in the Bible. Growing up we really felt sorry for that poor camel! :D
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Tue May 08, 2012 9:32 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:[/i]-sigh- True but it kills one of the great images in the Bible. Growing up we really felt sorry for that poor camel! :D


Yeah. When I was a very little kid I used to wonder why anyone would even try to push a cigarette through the eye of a needle.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue May 08, 2012 1:52 pm

Mark

I've been told that there is a gate that is in the Walls of Jerusalem called the eye of the needle. It is only a few feet tall.

Camel's cannot crawl, so that's where that came from.


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