SCIENCE VS RELIGION

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:58 pm

diane bartels wrote:Nothing in previous post re Red Menace about death. Why the interest in serial killers? In part, because of the separation of themselves into parts that they must do to kill and return to their lives. In a way, Speck was more a spree killer than a serial killer. Bundy is the one who fascinates me, because he was so much a part of the normal world in his day life, and so darkly completely evil in in killing. How did he live like that? It if that fragmentation, the divide in the psyche of the individual that has me hooked as a story line. Probably bc sometimes I feel a milder form of separation, of fragmentation in myself. It's not the death that fascinates, it's what the living people do with the death they live in around and with.


Hey Diane

I'm going to reccomend two books to you. One because it specifically deals with that dichotomy you were mentioning in Ted Bundy, and the other just because it's a good read, and a good way to help yourself look at serial killers and those types of people from what may be for you a fresh prespective.


It is well known that just before he was captured Ted Bundy, worked on the Suicide Prevention line in Seattle WA. Anne Rule, who has gone on to make a living of her "true" crime books, worked with him at this time and has written a really cool book called THe Stranger Beside Me. She was once a Dectitive fot the city of Seattle, and because of that, she would watch as the news went on and on about this killer, she slowly became aware of the fact that the man she worked with was the one they were looking for...

The other one is called Mindhunter and it's by John Douglas. He has been called "The Grandfather of Behavioral Profiling". He and a partner got the FBI to realise that this type of Profiling could help them to catch serial criminals after he explains how he came up with the concept, he then goes on to use it to explain the differences between the types of serial criminals.

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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby diane bartels » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:35 pm

Thanks Lori. Both books are a good place to start

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Chuck Messer
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Chuck Messer » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:39 pm

Douglas also has a web site. It's chock full of helpful information and links with other resources.

http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/home.php


Chuck Messer
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:43 am

The weird thing about Bundy was that he was no loser. He could have been a decent guy, but as Messer said, he was just missing something.

Then you have guys like the Hillside Stranglers. Those guys were pathetic freaks.

Sean Sellers is an odd case: he kills his parents, finds Jesus. Yes, I think he was sincere.

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Chuck Messer
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Chuck Messer » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:11 am

Hmmm. But would you want him for a neighbor, Frank? No snark, just curious.

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Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:07 am

Chuck Messer wrote:Hmmm. But would you want him for a neighbor, Frank? No snark, just curious.

Chuck


Often wondered about this question. It's like the one about having a beer with a potential candidate. The fact is, there are many people I quite like with whom I would neither wish to have a beer with or have as a neighbor.

Sorry for intruding, but it just occurred to me why the question has always bothered me and I wanted to jot it down before I forgot.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:05 pm

Don't forget to ask the psycho who found Jesus whether or not he would want Frank as a neighbor.

Heh heh heh. :wink:

---------------------------------

The self-help happy times "god loves my ass and I have a big house to prove it" Reverend Joel Osteen was in town over the weekend. He filled up the stadium with his fans. He's a lot more slick and a lot less crass than most of the other proponents of the so-called "Prosperity Gospel" that basically says god wants you to be rich and wealth is a sign of god's favor.

Interestingly this was the attitude of the religious orthodoxy in Jesus' day and he spent a considerable amount of time attacking this idea in the actual gospels. But Osteen admits he never went to seminary and actual theology accounts for very little in his preaching. He preaches that everyone should be happy. Touching really.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Steve Evil
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:30 pm

[Again, the friggin' machine ate my post! Second time this week]

Once I saw this osteen guy interviewed on Larry King. Try as I might, I couldn't help liking the guy.

Larry tried to bait him with homophobia. The Rev just smiled and said "Everyone is welcome at our church!"
He was then asked if he did any charity work. " We do! It's one of our favorite things to do!"
Finally, he was asked if he encouraged his followers to give to the poor. "We do. We believe in miracles; we believe you can be someone's miracle."

No fire no brimstone no calling for Zion. I figured if people must flock to mega preachers, it may as well be this guy.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:56 pm

Ah, guys, Sean Sellers was put to death.

Morality doesn't save you from the sinful state.

It's not God who kills, it's men.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:58 pm

Osteen is dangerous. The prosperity gospel is nothing but evil. He keeps certain views to himself because that's how he gets dupes, and money.

He's ick.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:41 pm

Osteen is dangerous.

Aw Frank I think the "lock up all the queers" crowd is much worse than Osteen. He wants us all to be happy. Don't you want to be happy? Of course if you've got evidence that behind the scenes he's financing death squads somewhere I'd certainly like to hear it.

It's not God who kills, it's men.

Well my friend there's a reason for that isn't there? Do I need to say it?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Ben W.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ben W. » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:03 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:It's not God who kills, it's men.

Well my friend there's a reason for that isn't there? Do I need to say it?


Uh...men are mean?

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Lori Koonce
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue May 01, 2012 11:15 am

FrankChurch wrote:Ah, guys, Sean Sellers was put to death.

Morality doesn't save you from the sinful state.

It's not God who kills, it's men.



Frank

I'm gonna toss you a hardball, but I think you're up to the challenge.

God does kill people. He does it all the time. it's called Natural Death. According to your crowd, he and only he decides when we die.

If that's not a form of killing, then I haven't got a clue to what would be.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 01, 2012 12:50 pm

A doctor went on Morning Joe and said that an aspirin a day is good for preventing heart disease and cancer. Science, gotta love it.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue May 01, 2012 2:19 pm

Ben W. wrote:
Ezra Lb. wrote:It's not God who kills, it's men.

Well my friend there's a reason for that isn't there? Do I need to say it?


Uh...men are mean?


Well yeah but my real point was that god does not kill because he doesn't exist.


FrankChurch wrote:A doctor went on Morning Joe and said that an aspirin a day is good for preventing heart disease and cancer. Science, gotta love it.


What surprises you, that a doctor went on Morning Joe or that aspirin helps prevent heart disease and cancer? The evidence is pretty strong. I take an 81 mg tablet every day per my own doctor.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter


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