Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:24 pm

Always tell the foreign bankers to fuck off is my motto. Iceland did and they survived.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:26 pm

Frank -- Remind me never to lend you any money. :mrgreen:
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:29 pm

Ezra, I am proud of DC. House Of Cards wanted to film there but the government did not want to give them the tax breaks movie companies have gotten in other states, what I talked about many moons ago. Big movie companies can afford their own largesse, they do not need tax welfare.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:52 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Ezra, I am proud of DC. House Of Cards wanted to film there but the government did not want to give them the tax breaks movie companies have gotten in other states, what I talked about many moons ago. Big movie companies can afford their own largesse, they do not need tax welfare.



I live in one of those cities you are complaining about. Other than taxes, which will never come close to it, how do you propose we replace lost revenue? The movies will and have gone where they can maximize their expenditures. They are a business after all.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:01 pm

Last night I watched a debate on C-SPAN between Bill Ayres and Dinesh D'Souza, held at Dartmouth College. I must say, in my admittedly biased view, Dinesh made mincemeat of Ayres. Now pile on.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:09 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Always tell the foreign bankers to fuck off is my motto. Iceland did and they survived.


Then I have to assume Iceland possessed leaders with more integrity. My point was, Chavez was the one who made those usurious deals. Or did you not know that he'd been underwriting his socialist paradise with loans with double-digit interest payments?

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:12 pm

I didn't see the debate but I've seen D'Souza before and my opinion of his is not high. He's kind of like a little kid who got lucky and now wonders why everyone doesn't have a Rolls-Royce, except he has a brain and ought to know better.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:01 pm

Mark Tiedemann wrote:I didn't see the debate but I've seen D'Souza before and my opinion of his is not high. He's kind of like a little kid who got lucky and now wonders why everyone doesn't have a Rolls-Royce, except he has a brain and ought to know better.


And your opinion of former Weather Underground bomber IS high?

As an author yourself, you certainly know that writing and publishing 15 boojs, sone of the NY Tines bestsellers, doesn't happen through luck -- it's work. (Luck can play a role in the popular acceptance of your books, but you still have to do the work.) And his trouncing of Bill Ayres in the debate wasn't luck either -- it was greater skill, intelligence, and yes, wisdom.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:10 pm

For those who are interested, here's the entire two-hoyr debate, billed THE ULTIMATE FIGHT between LEFT and RIGHT:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6bO2mCekz0
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:35 pm

Now, I didn't say what I thought of Ayres. I don't know enough about him to have an opinion.

Forgive me for not being impressed by the number of books D'Souza has published. No, I know it's not luck, some people hang on his every word, but it's also no indicator of wisdom, either. Erik von Danikan published a dozen or more and he was frankly as full of shit as they come.

In high school, we received a visit from an Big Name Ecology Guy who was trying to stop the harp seal hunts on the St. Lawrence Sea Way ice floes. I wrote a rather critical essay about him for the school paper. I was summarily called from class by the teacher sponsoring the ecology club and upbraided for my temerity at criticizing him. "After all this man has written a book," she said, with a perfectly straight face. To which I replied, not untruthfully, "I've written three books. Care to read them?"

D'Souza is an apologist for Wall Street and cheerleader for everything in the GOP I can't stand. He looks at the world through a very narrow filter and all but dismisses anyone who can't see their way to making a prosperous living for themselves without taking into account the reality he himself left behind when he came here from India. He's facile. He's much like the Music Man or a door-to-door salesman who never questions his product.

On the other hand, Ayres came from a movement that was trying, however ham-fistedly, to get his country to stop sending children to an unjust war and change its policies to conform with its stated principles. I don't know how well Ayres himself contributed to the effort, but I have somewhat more sympathy with the various radical movements back then than I have with the toadies who kept the machine going that made a mess of Southeast Asia to no real purpose.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:37 pm

Addendum. He's not an apologist for everything in the GOP I can't stand, just the fiscally conservative part that can't seem to understand fundamental economic reality for anyone living below the 20K a year mark. I don't know what D'Souza thinks of the Tea Party.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:35 pm

Ayers blew up buildings and D'Souza blows up trendy left-wing shibboleths. I leave it to others to decide who's been effective -- or more useful.

Comparing D'Souza to von Danikan is absurd. Von Danikan was a charlatan selling fake "evidence" about alien contact with earth; D'Souza is articulating the principles of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the ideals of the Declaration of Independence, and the truly liberating idea of wealth creation that is bringing millions out of poverty in China and and India and elsewhere, while our elites condemn the very wealth creation that provides money for all the social programs Ayers and his ilk are eager to fund. Really, Mark, sometimes I think you and a few others here see the businessman as the tubby, top-hatted fellow from the Monopoly board.

I eagerly await the day when artists, writers, academics, and media people stop endlessly parroting the shopworn ideas and slogans that have been the catechism of what Lionel Trilling called "the Adversary Culture" ever since the Progressive Era, if not before -- and start doing some hard thinking about what really lifts people out of poverty and builds prosperous nations. (Or does that sound too uncool for our culturati?) The left thinks. it's a zero-sum game -- only conquest or exploitation can produce wealth, in their impoverished view. The American idea is to produce good and services that people want. Only then can you worry about how to redistribute the wealth to others who do not produce it.

You think you know what D'Souza thinks, but do you really? He thinks both the Vietnam and Iraq wars were a mistake. He changed his view on the Iraq war -- what have you changed your mind about?
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:07 pm

Robert Nason wrote:Ayers blew up buildings and D'Souza blows up trendy left-wing shibboleths. I leave it to others to decide who's been effective -- or more useful.



My flat-out response: Neither. Fuck them both.

Uselessness is uselessness, regardless.
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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:14 pm

Robert Nason wrote:For those who are interested, here's the entire two-hoyr debate, billed THE ULTIMATE FIGHT between LEFT and RIGHT:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6bO2mCekz0


To the degree this is true yet another reason to avoid the entire left/right framework.

I've seen D'Souza debate several times opposing ideas with which I personally agree so I'm sure that will color my view of him. I did see clips from the movie he made about Obama and it was borderline semi-hysterical with the whole "Kenya" thing.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:35 pm

Furthermore: When Ayres condemns America for its misdeeds abroad (which every thoughtful person concedes), D'Souza asks a simple question: Would the world be a better or worse place if Anerica had not existed? What would the world have looked like after WWI without America? After WWII? The Cold War? Answer honestly. Would you would want to live in such a world -- as opposed to a utopia of your imagination, which is always pretty and bright?

Sure, you can "opt out" of the liberal-conservative debate. But then you also declare yourself politically irrelevant as far as American public life is concerned. Which is always an option, but a dismal one.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion


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