Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:31 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Mark, you are right, we didn't install any government, but we created a power vacuum where the Taliban could creep in. We did fund the Mujahadeen that later became Al Qaida, that I do know, and so do you.


That's still a few steps away from laying it all on our doorstep. BTW, I agree that it was bad thing to do to just drop them, but we have a habit of doing that.

As to what I know, well, the Mujahadeen was never a monolith, and Al-Quida was the brainchild of Osama bin-Ladin, and he drew his membership from many nations. There were a number of Mujahadeen warlords who wanted nothing to do with bin Ladin. History is always more complex than a soundbite.

I'll tell you what 9/11 is the direct result of: the arrogance of W's administration. During the hand-over, Clinton's people tried to explain the problem this Al-Quida was going to be and that they had to look out for bin Ladin, and they were summarily brushed aside and their information dismissed. W's people had the worst case of "not invented here" of any administration before them. All the pieces were there for them to follow up on and stop that catastrophe, which has been one of the most thorough clusterfucks in history.

You credit Chomsky for "living in the real world." Well, bin Ladin's problem was that he did not live in the real world. He was a megalomaniac who problem knew what kind of a shitstorm he was about to bring down on his own people and he didn't care. None of the very real problems he claimed to be speaking to were addressed by his actions, only made worse. He was a like kid with building blocks that he thought it was cool to knock down. Even his own family thought he was a bit detached from reality and gave him money to stay away.

In this whole mess, the major troublespot all along has been Pakistan. The Taliban was their creation, which they lost control of, and they'd been exporting nastiness for decades because they have a jones for India. If there was a country we should have done something to, it's Pakistan.

But we didn't. Because that might cause more shit than it would fix. So just like the Cold War, we find ourselves stuck with all these ugly little proxy wars, only there's no one around like Eisenhower or Truman anymore who understands how to manage them, so they just turn into little puddles on incommensurable chaos. We really would be better off staying out of it all, I agree completely, but withdrawing would raise such a clamor of protest from so many parts of the world...damned if we do and damned if we don't. Now Romney's making sturm und drang statements about military intervention in Syria and how Obama's a weak president because he won't do anything and once more we see the build-up and if the storm breaks and we go in, within a year whoever is in the White House will be answering an angry public outcry about dead soldiers. If the country elects Romney and he does that, then the only people to blame are We The People who voted the idiot in.

You know, Bush told us what he intended to do. Then he did it and people were horrified. How could he betray us? He didn't. We betrayed ourselves by not paying attention.

Sorry for the ramble. I'm going to write more fiction now. It, at least, makes sense.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:29 pm

Great, now they worry about Islamic crazies taking over Syria. Duh.

They won't just sit there while Assad murders children. This portents that we better play nicer with the arab world.

Romney's idiotic comments about the Palestinians having cultural flaws really fuck it all up. We cannot let him win. I may even hold my nose and choose Obama.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:02 pm

The Communist party success in Afghanistan was an example of indepedent nationalism, which the west hates, which they mention in internal documents. Independent nationalism is a rotten apple that will spoil the rest. This is why we supported the massacres in Indonesia in 1965, where Suharto murdered around 700 thousand people. The New York Times called Indonesia a "bright light" in the region.

Human rights is mostly about who is killed and do they matter. We can paint a red hammer on their backs and we forget them.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:43 am

FrankChurch wrote:I like seeing Steve Evil scrappy.

Nobody on the left thinks the invasion of Afghanistan was good, but we do think the Islamic creeps we put into power were far worse. The same creeps that attacked us on 9/11.

Truth is about degrees.


So when are you coming out to play then?

So which creeps are you talking about? The Taliban? The ones you turfed from power? Via the invasion nobody thought was good?

Let's grant for a second that the communists did do some good things. Land reform and rights for women and such. Undeniable. But then, by this same logic, could it not be said that the Western powers have done some good things? You know, getting rid of the Taliban and such. Isn't truth about degrees?

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:35 am

The Taliban is stronger than ever. According to Malalai Joya the warlords are even worse. And they are our allies!

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Ben W.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ben W. » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:26 pm

There was a time when living with your ma and pa during adulthood was guaranteed authentication of being a loser. Well, looks like society is going to have to start re-adjusting its perceptions of loserdom, thanks to the current financial clusterfuck:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... finds.html

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:11 pm

Read Charles Ferguson's new book--he was the guy that directed Inside Job. Amazing sourcing and scary facts about why the economy tanked and why it may again.

When dealing with Gore Vidal politically it is best to stick with his views before Sept 11, before the loonyness started to take shape. He and Hitchens went different places but took the same boat.

Could you imagine what Vidal said to God. lol

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:49 pm

FrankChurch wrote: Could you imagine what Vidal said to God. lol


"I see that you're still giving them a chance. Whether that's a good or a bad thing, I'm not about to betray my sentiments. Which room is mine?"

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:37 pm

A lot of what I am is because of Gore Vidal. Dream about that tonight.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:47 pm

One great thing about our side is we have a whole bundle of great whistle blowers. One of the best is Ray Mcgovern, ex-CIA analyst. Blame him for my Soviet views.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/CentralIntellig

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:57 am

Oh........my.........god

Well at least this blows the myth that British TV is inherently superior to American. Apparently this report was actually broadcast during the BBC coverage of the Olympics. Can you imagine this being broadcast on American TV?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Aw_UeILgeY

This video has everything. Darwin, Hitler, slavery. Oh yeah slavery was good training for the 200M foot race! Personally, I've always wondered why there were few if any black hockey players. Well they obviously don't have the hockey gene! :roll:

Wow the BBC made this. :( I'm so disillusioned. Guess they couldn't take the time to call up Dawkins to explain how natural selection really works. Probably can't afford him now. :wink:
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:53 pm

Ezra, you live here, you should worry about our horrible tv. Obviously I blame the lame copyright laws. lol

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:11 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:Oh........my.........god

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Aw_UeILgeY

This video has everything. Darwin, Hitler, slavery. Oh yeah slavery was good training for the 200M foot race! Personally, I've always wondered why there were few if any black hockey players. Well they obviously don't have the hockey gene! :roll:
while the effect of slave shipping on the gene pool was a single event to each individual, it was harsh and sure.
a high percentage were lost.
only those most resistant to on board disease, minimal to no food, minimal water, minimal hygiene.

but that wasn't the offered theory on the genetic advantage in a sprint. or your hockey gene.

the non-mutated version of alpha-actinin skeletal muscle isoform 3 gene was offered as the advantage.
europeans and asians have a higher percentage of the mutated variety, differences in the ratio of slow and fast twich muscle fibers, atp breakdown through abp to amp, mitochondrial size, number and efficiency to rebuild those broken phosphate bonds, etc. etc. etc.

and the narrator repeated in varied manner that nothing was certain.
but if you pay attention, you can't shit all over it, eh? :wink:
follow your bliss,mike

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:59 am

Also, according to science there is no such thing as race. They studied the genes of two Bushmen and each one has varied genes, one more in common with someone from Europe. Skin color is just a tan.

Culture does exist, but that's a good thing.

Culture is slowly dying, thanks to a certain company with mouse ears.

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:45 am

race not so much.
genetic dispositions among groups yes.
a pre-programmed tan, yes.

not that it matters...
wonder what, if any, cultural pressures influenced which tribes, families, groups, whatever, to leave the fertile home valleys.
crowding, depleted resources; do we go north, south, or what ?

so much is just a roll of the die. jared diamond on "guns germs and steel" made a good point.
when the environment stresses us, sometimes we fight.
we didn't always need a sophisticated reason, as in an evil race or ideology.
another product of our intellectual progress? :lol:
love politics. :roll:

but the mouse isn't killing culture.
follow your bliss,mike


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