Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:09 am

FrankChurch wrote:Ezra, the media take her seriously, as they take Mormonism seriously. They take Sarah Palin seriously as well..


They do, but not in the way you seem to suggest. Palin is taken seriously because, for whatever reason, she motivates people. A lot of people. She has an impact. (Yes, partly because the media give her a platform, but that's only because she was already given one by the GOP.) They pay attention because she has influence.

The same with Mormonism. But I'd say that they don't actually take Mormonism seriously, they take Mormons seriously. You never see the media say much of anything about the LDS except as an identifier of someone. Mitt Romney's a Mormon. They command a significant base, they have impact, they influence. They do that even without the media's help. To not take that seriously would be a serious oversight.

Chomsky doesn't have the kind of influence that draws that kind of attention and for a simple reason---everything about him is anti-power base. He urges the dismantling of "movements." Which isn't going to happen. People are lemmings. Chomsky refused the crown, he controls no great numbers of people, he influences nothing in that way, so he represents a sideshow. Not fair? True and true. But ultimately, he is ignored because he has no effect on large numbers.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of what Palin and Mormonism possess on their own. Mormonism is a crackpot grassroots cult that made "good" by surviving long enough to become a large movement, Sarah Palin is a small intellect with a charismatic demeanor and a tagline. But they influence large numbers, for better or worse. Till you understand this about how the media is attracted, you will always scratch your head in wonder. I mean, shit, they treated Michael Jackson "seriously." Numbers, man. Numbers.

But this is also why the media takes people like Pat Robertson and Rick Warren seriously and tags along with the Westboro boys. Numbers influenced. It's also why christianity and Islam are taken seriously. Not so much for what they say but for the numbers of people they influence.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:35 am

Ice-t pretty much answers the question about how culture affects violence, or not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8WrXrwBSsc

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Mark, I like you, but that was pretty weak. Chomsky is one of the eighth most quoted persons in the entire humanities. I see conservatives give talks and they get thirty people.

Sorry, but it is censorship, straight.

We are not lemmings, just misinformed.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:53 am

Mark, this guy sums up why Chomsky is important:

http://www.zcommunications.org/chomskys ... ani-lausti

Consistant values--a center of values, not popularity, not seeking the false reaches of power, which are controlled.

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:11 am

Frank, we were talking about why mainstream media ignores Chomsky, not why or whether he is important. I was not, for the record, dissing Chomsky, but he does not draw big numbers, and that's what The Media is all about.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:33 am

FrankChurch wrote:
Sorry, but it is censorship, straight.

We are not lemmings, just misinformed.


Bullshit.

You don't know what censorship is. Censorship is not "oh, that book is no longer in print." Censorship is seeing a book pulled the next day from all bookstores and the remainders instantly pulped and people showing up in publishers's offices telling them not to even look at it if it comes around for reprint. Censorship is agents being called and threatened if they don't drop a client. Censorship is having everything on YouTube taken down. Censorship is you being visited after you attend a lecture by this guy. Censorship is having his self-printed pamphlets confiscated and universities told not to invite him.

Censorship is being prosecuted criminally for publishing his work. It a retraction of all invitations for interviews. It is libraries being flensed of their older copies of his books. Censorship is having to meet a distributor somewhere as if you were a druggy and he were your connection to get bad copies. Censorship is having sites on the internet blocked that contain his content.

What you're bitching about is that your favorite pundit can't get the same marketshare as Rush Limbaugh, and while I agree that is horrible it is not censorship. His work is findable and nobody goes to jail for distributing it, buying it, reading it, or talking about it in public.

As for people being lemmings....

I do not have your confidence. In my state, the University of Missouri has decided to shut down the UM Press, which has been publishing books for 54 years and is a well-respected academic press. There has been a moderate swell of protest. The operated in the red, probably like most university presses, and it cost UM $400,000 a year to subsidize it. The new president, a Mr. Wolfe, decided that was a waste of money and announced it's imminent demise. At the same time, it was announced that UM is getting $72,000,000 for new sports facilities. Seventy-two million. And they can't pare off half a million from that for something that actually matters?

A few years ago, the last public event I chaired for the Missouri Center for the Book took place in Columbia, MO, where UM---known cutely as "Mizzou" (don't ya love it?)---is. It was our annual Celebration of the Book, which we held on the anniversary of the establishment of the Center, or close to it, in October or November. One of the people on the committee worked his ass off to get us a weekend when nothing else was going on in Columbia. He scoured every calendar, made phone calls, and found the weekend.

Two weeks before our event, A Big Game was announced in Columbia at Mizzou. When this person called to find our how come it hadn't been in any of the calendars prior to that, the answer he got was "Sir, this is Columbia. Why should we have to tell anyone there's going to be a football game?"

Fucking lemmings. Burn the UM Press down, but don't fuck with their football! The exact same mentality as those morons that comprise the Tea Party. Tell me how people aren't Followers, Frank? Lemmings! Give 'em a beer and brat and game and they'll vote themselves into oblivion because it won't occur to them that the asshole of the week is actually harming them when they're so entertained.

Lemmings. People don't want to be informed. It just confuses them. You should maybe go talk to some of these people, the Dittoheads and the Palinites and especially the fucking Mormons! Your head will explode from being so close to a vacuum, namely the empty space where their brains should be.

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:43 am

P.S.

People don't have to be lemmings all the time. Just some of the time.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:10 pm

Mark, I was never political until the early 90s, when I listened to a Jello Biafra spoken word album and said to myself: "if half of the stuff he is saying is true, this country of ours is fucking crazy." I continued to look for further evidence. I became informed. At the time I made around thirteen thousand a year. I was poor, I did not have any specialized knowledge. What made me not become a lemming?

People may act like lemmings, but they are diverted--by popular culture, by talk radio, by Fox News, by media drivel. I was diverted as well. I'm not special. In our free society the truth is out there and people can be led.

-----------

Mark, media regularly has on people who have a very small following. Chomsky is all over the BBC, the CBC, Australian media, Israeli media, the Irish Times. The NPR story he told elsewhere proves their is special hatred for the left. The media hates progressives, that is obvious.

Al Jazeera, RT have him on, why not our media? They must think he has a following. Even Bill Maher had him on, after getting like a million letters.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:08 pm

Frank,

Being ignored is still not being censored. Words have value. Misusing them or overusing them in the wrong context devalues them. Your boy is not censored. He is ignored. Big difference.

And that is partly why I call people Lemmings.

You asked a very good question. How come you aren't a lemming? Well, in some things, which you may even consider inconsequential, you may be. I am. It's a matter of priority.

People who can cite you baseball stats going back 40 years, explain complex football strategy, or quote the lyrics from every single Beatles' song and tell you the stories behind them might have strong political opinions right or left and not be able to tell you who their state legislative rep is. People who can navigate a complicated tax return and can retain every penny of "their money" probably don't know if there's a neighborhood organization in their area or when the meetings are. And I have had shouting matches with people condemning nuclear power who haven't got the first idea how or how much power is generated, who uses it, and what its actual costs are. (They see the word Nuclear and their hair stands up, probably from all those bad movies and the fact their friends are all involved.) Lemmings on either side. A display of political awareness doesn't mean there is.

Why aren't you a lemming? I don't know. Just the right amount of disaffection, self-awareness, conscience, and sense of community commitment? A profound desire not to be duped? Someone said something on just the right day and moved the switch to On? Or just the sense that some things Matter? Whatever, once you recognize the pitfalls of lemmingdom, one is loathe to return. Good for you that you've managed not be lobotomized after all this time. The temptation to just go back to sleep is profound. I've tried from time to time, but the habits of a lifetime of not being fucked with always get in the way.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:33 pm

Exclusion is a form of censorship.

There are differing talents, but in a democracy everybody has to be up on current events and civic duties, because if they do not the forces of power can just run things, usually very badly.

People are lemmings because they want to be part of the same team. It's much easier to wave a flag then to point out the blood that flag is soaked in.

Case in point: Try being Frank Church for one day. lol I still say it is not about me being a butt but my ideas upsetting the applecart. I start conversations--lemmings hate that. That could lead to much worse: like democracy.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:55 pm

Frank is a lemming. Running off the left side of the cliff. :lol:



I know we have several more or less loyal subjects of the British Empire who contribute to this forum. Can I ask a question?

Who the hell designed the logo for the London 2012 Olympics?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... iclogo.jpg

And where did they come up with the mascots, Mandeville and Wenlock?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/london-2012-masco ... g-1.514505

Scary.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Chuck Messer
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Chuck Messer » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:56 pm

Palin is taken seriously because, for whatever reason, she motivates people. A lot of people. She has an impact. (Yes, partly because the media give her a platform, but that's only because she was already given one by the GOP.) They pay attention because she has influence.


I've wondered about that, the popularity of dimwits and charlatans with a subatantial percentage of the crowd. It seems that what really appeals to them is tough talk. Just plant your feet, set your jaw and talk tough convincingly, and these people will follow you straight into hell. Even if the tough talk is poundingly stupid, they get weak in the knees when they hear it.

Ronald Reagan, Dubya, Sarah, or Sheriff Joe Arpaio. They were all good at making with the tough talk. Because to one particular crowd, life should be alike an 80's action film. Even if it really isn't.

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby DanielBarron » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:44 pm


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Chuck Messer
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Chuck Messer » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:56 pm

The Simmmpsonnns!
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:44 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:Frank is a lemming. Running off the left side of the cliff. :lol:


Who the hell designed the logo for the London 2012 Olympics?


And where did they come up with the mascots, Mandeville and Wenlock?


Scary.


School kids, near as I can tell. Gives them something to draw in art class, something I don't have to take home and mark.

Brits love weird looking monsters. . .

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:55 pm

That explains Prince Charles.


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