Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue May 08, 2012 8:48 am

The French certainly are smarter than we are.

Not really. They just have a different concept of the social contract than we do.

...why austerity is bad...

Austerity's a bitch...

Austerity worked in Germany which is why they advocated it for countries like Italy and Greece. But austerity was accomplished in Germany in non-crisis conditions and it really doesn't work in crisis conditions which is where Italy and Greece are. I think what scares everyone is what this means for the concept of a economically unified Europe. But what they are discovering is that economic unity cannot come without social and political unity. Good luck with that!

What's nauseating is to hear our right wing leap on this as a "failure of Europe" and a failure of social democracy. But the problems of Greece and Italy have specific causes unique to their situation.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 08, 2012 6:44 pm

Germany didn't really do austerity. They still have a social contract. Certainly much more than we do. They have state banks and labor leaders on corporate boards, very important to mention.

Anthony Ravenscroft
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Anthony Ravenscroft » Tue May 08, 2012 10:18 pm

The majority of self-styled Anarchists or Libertarians that I know aren't very anti-government. They want government done their way.

If someone truly loathes the game, they should cash out & step away from the table. A player might poke at the rules to get an edge, but by definition that's game-playing (albeit a level off) & calls to question any protestations otherwise.

For 30 years the GOP has been endlessly gaming the system, seeking special treatment at every turn. Their no-neck minions rail against "the nanny state" yet are more than happy to collect subsidies, & should those teats run dry they'd likely be among the first to take up arms to restore the suck.

Hereabouts, we're being barraged with TV ads about all the good things the oil boom has done for North Dakota. Yet ND remains one of the most Fed-dependent states, as well as one of the most politically corrupt:
http://www.stateintegrity.org/north_dakota
Even as high-paying roughneck jobs blossom in the west of the state, so does prostitution & the drug trade, & with all that cash it's becoming impossible for middle-class renters to afford ballooning rents. Those people, & the ones who can't hack the risks & pressures of oil-field work, have been moving to the easterly cities, so median income is drifting steadily downward:
http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/231694/

This is the vaunted "free market" with a foot lightly on the brake. What would happen if Big Government were neutered? Even corrupt & inefficient, it's at least a BIT of an anchor for irrational exuberance.

Sure, government sucks. But until someone shows me something better, or at least a glimmer, I'm staying in the game, & pushing for a well-defined set of rules, applied fairly.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed May 09, 2012 12:37 pm

We need a strong government to keep capitalism in check. Eventually it will dismantle capitalism, then we dismantle government.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby David Silver » Wed May 09, 2012 1:09 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Poor Emma Goldman had to be deported because of what other mooks did.

Ayn Rand, now that's a dangerous person. Economic terrorism is what we should really be focusing on.



Hey Frank,

Learn something new everyday in a place like this...

I didn't even know who Emma Goldman was until I saw your remark yesterday. I spent a couple of hours (sporadically, wrapped around my work) to educate myself. Fascinating woman. Amazing life. Gave me a much more clear idea of what ideal anarchism looks like. I can dig it. I get where you come from a little better. Thanks for the heads-up.

Not much I can say to you about my gal Ayn Rand. What people today just don't want to see is that the current beast called "libertarianism" bears no resemblance to the ideal objectivist philosophy she derived and espoused. Just as you should NEVER judge genuine christian values (or Jesus himself)) by the abhorrent acts of modern day christians (or murderous christians in history), in the same way you cannot judge Rand's genuine philosophy (or Rand herself) by the abhorrent acts of "libertarians" and self-congratulatory "Atlas Shrugged" toting malicious corporate thugs who think objectivism is a viable excuse to slaughter innocents. I know, maybe a tough analogy, and I know you want to beat up on Rand. Seriously, the current corporate state is not her fault, any more than the Thirty Years War was in anyway the fault of Jesus. Goldman believed her ideal anarchism could only exist in a world without property and capitalism because those conditions enslave people. Rand believed her ideal anarchism could only exist in a world of property and capitalism because those conditions freed people. Frank, these two brilliant women actually wanted the exact same thing, anarchism as a foundation for free expression and freedom to live one's life anyway a person chose, but they believed they could only be achieved coming at them from completely polar directions! They were BOTH wrong, but for reasons we can debate some other time. I lean heavily towards Rand, and probably always will.

Thanks again for mentioning Emma Goldman...

David
We don't stop playing because we grow old.
We grow old because we stop playing.

-- George Bernard Shaw

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed May 09, 2012 3:41 pm

Point of order: Silver pm'd me that last statement and I pretty-pleased him to put it here.

Well, thank you David. Yes, she was a very good woman, persecuted, I believe for her Jewishness, as well as her anarchism. This is why they went after the left as hard as they did, because Jews were at the forefront.

Rudolf Rocker, Proudhon, look for them as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon

David Silver
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby David Silver » Wed May 09, 2012 4:32 pm

FrankChurch wrote:"... (Emma Goldman) was a very good woman, persecuted, I believe for her Jewishness, as well as her anarchism.


Ironic, that, since she was apparently a severe critic of Zionism as well.
We don't stop playing because we grow old.
We grow old because we stop playing.

-- George Bernard Shaw

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu May 10, 2012 7:53 am

Zionism no longer means what it used to mean. Nowadays it merely means colonialism.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu May 10, 2012 11:53 am

Barber likes history. Here's some history:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr4pwxanOQY

:)

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Duane
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Duane » Thu May 10, 2012 1:08 pm

OK, I'll be the one to break this breaking news: In high school, Mitt Romney bullied a gay student, tackled him and cut his hair. Of course, he doesn't remember the incident, but he felt the need to apologize. But he didn't remember it....

http://news.yahoo.com/romney-abrupt-apo ... 45286.html

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NeonMosfet
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby NeonMosfet » Sat May 12, 2012 6:23 pm

I know. This doesn't say Mitt Romney is gay, Latently or otherwise. The gay student was blonde. Ann Romney is blonde. Connect the dots.
Myopia Through Convexed Harlequins

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 15, 2012 8:49 am

So, he has five kids because of his gay rape fantasies?

Noooo, I'm not strident. :o

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 15, 2012 8:52 am

There's video from 1979, where Zbigniew brzezinski is talking to the Mujahadeen, telling them that God is on their side. When the soft power flaks talk like that no wonder the right wing is so crazy.

We're the problem. We need to admit that simple fact.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Thu May 17, 2012 9:08 am

Well we always suspected it had happened. The right would always ask where's your proof? Well, here it is.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... arlos?lite
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Chuck Messer
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Chuck Messer » Thu May 17, 2012 5:14 pm

The rednecks who go to publicly celebrate excecutions will be mighty upset by this, especially if it opens other cases to scruitiny. It'll spoil thier fun. And for them, that is what they call fun.

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.


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