FrankChurch wrote:If Israel has the right of self defense then Hamas does also. Right Steve, RIGHT STEVE!!
Actually, no, unless Hamas is acting as the government of the Gaza strip and is then reacting to an initial attack from Israel (which has happened in the past, but is inapplicable in the current situation). Nations with internationally recognized borders have that right, not organizations that amount to "insurgencies".
On the other hand, if you are suggesting that Hamas' current violation of the cease fire are formal actions of the Gazan government -- which Hamas also is -- that changes the situation significantly. In this scenario, Hamas, as a government body, violated a negotiated cease fire inviting retaliation. Launching what amounts to a cross-border attack makes Hamas every bit as aggressive a nation-state as Israel.
Therefore, as a nation Israel maintains the right of self defense. If they had struck Hamas/Gaza first, then the scenario would be reveresed with Hamas/Gaza as the legitimate responder.
(And don't argue that this has happened before, it's an inapplicable argument to the current situation. "Bobby hit me yesterday, so I had to hit him today.")
Claiming self defense when you began the hostilities is absurd. The claim of pre-emptive self defense is one I have condemned Bush for making in attacking Iraq, and is ridiculous on the face of it whether it's Hamas, Israel, the US, or the People's Republic of the Congo.
(And if you're truly supporting that sort of doctrine, Frank, you need to re-examine many of the positions you've taken on this board.)
To borrow from Adam-Troy's fable, you can't kick the bully in the shins then scream self-defense when he blackens your eye and you hit him with a chair.
What you're saying, Frank, is that it's okay for Hamas to unilaterally initiate an attack on Israel, kill civilians in the process, but that Israel has to suck it up and take it because they "deserve it".
And that logic -- if one could call it that -- is "bass-ackwards", as they say. If a cease fire was in place, the first to declare an end to it and attack the other is in the wrong.