Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:10 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Why didn't the publisher tell O'Reilly, sorry, Bill, you cannot do a book with that title?



Why would they? It's a series and the previous two sold very well. Killing Lincoln and Killing Kennedy. Or didn't you know about those?

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:20 pm

There are several suppressed books, I do know that. There are several that are being released as e-books. You can certainly find out about Paperclip but it is not as easy to access as Watergate or the explosion of the Columbia or the downing of flight 500--I'd make the claim that Paperclip is much more important as news. I would bet most Americans would not know about it.

I am certain they would know about those others.

Take the funding of the Contras. Sure we know about that, but do we know our support for killing Oscar Romero? Not as much. It is out there but it is not as out there.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:21 pm

Just that O'Reilly has credibility shows how insane the system truly is.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:28 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Just that O'Reilly has credibility shows how insane the system truly is.


He's a name, his books sold. I'm not sure that's the same as having "credibility."

Actually, the Lincoln book is not bad except in one particular. According to the O'Reilly, the woman involved who ran the boarding house and was convicted in the conspiracy was treated like shit after her arrest. The book makes a point of this, but it's absolutely false. Mary Surratt was treated with kid gloves by her Union jailers. I can only think he rewrote this because it would make the "federals" look bad for maltreating a woman, and that it would be a safe point to lie about since who would bother to check? I found it a bizarre but revealing revision.

And, btw, O'Reilly himself didn't write the books.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby AndrewR » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:49 pm

FrankChurch wrote:There are several suppressed books, I do know that. There are several that are being released as e-books. You can certainly find out about Paperclip but it is not as easy to access as Watergate or the explosion of the Columbia or the downing of flight 500--I'd make the claim that Paperclip is much more important as news. I would bet most Americans would not know about it.

I am certain they would know about those others.

Take the funding of the Contras. Sure we know about that, but do we know our support for killing Oscar Romero? Not as much. It is out there but it is not as out there.


Suppressed by who, exactly? A publisher may have decided that there's no money in it. Happens all the time. Just because a book doesn't get a publisher doesn't mean that it was suppressed.

Time to remove the tinfoil kiddo.
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Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:52 pm

Operation Paperclip was also almost 60 years ago. It seems perfectly natural that people would be more knowledgeable---or should I say be more aware of---more recent events, like those in your list. This is hardly an indictment of public priorities. I think the Zimmerman Telegram fiasco is a pretty serious thing, but I don't get insensed at the lack of public awareness of this clear example of obfuscation and misapprehension that resulted in America entering a foreign war.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:31 pm

They do the same thing with the CIA/crack cocaine story. They can talk about it more now even though talking about it then could have saved lives.

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FinderDoug
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:14 pm

There are several suppressed books, I do know that.
I've walked through shadows with more substance than what you "know".

No titles, authors or circumstances. So in the end, no evidence and zero credibility. Just your say-so, coupled to a screed against the New York Times and the "elite media" that was demonstrably false.

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Steve Barber
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Barber » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:16 am

All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:13 pm

Barber, if someone shoots a cop after the Grand Jury rules in Ferguson, that does not mean Darren Wilson is not more in the wrong. Israel is Wilson.

-------------

Doug, I have been reading lefty books for twenty years or so.

Douglas Valentine's book on Paperclip was one suppressed book.

Bugliosi's Bush book was avoided by media.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:21 pm

Idiocy in my beloved Minnesota:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFwb8z0A5nM

If a senior citizen points at the green jello is pops or moms gang bangers?

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:30 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Barber, if someone shoots a cop after the Grand Jury rules in Ferguson, that does not mean Darren Wilson is not more in the wrong. Israel is Wilson.


That's absurd. Anyone shoots a cop is the one who's wrong, period. You do not justify violence by claiming "my sensitivities were offended."

This is one reason no one takes you very seriously, Frank.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:44 pm

Mark is right Frank. If hurt feelings were a justification for homicide, you'd have been dead a long time ago.

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Steve Barber
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Barber » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:10 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Barber, if someone shoots a cop after the Grand Jury rules in Ferguson, that does not mean Darren Wilson is not more in the wrong. Israel is Wilson.

.



That's a complete false equivalency, Frank. Absurdly so. Either you missed my comment entirely or you're trying to bring in extraneous issues to cloud the message.

Hamas brutally murdered four religious men, from two countries they explicitly cannot afford to alienate. They have given Israel's government the media-reinforced moral high ground in the eyes of the world, so that any action from the Israelis is justifiable.

It was a brutal and damned stupid mistake which will cost their cause significantly. Which has nothing to do with Fergason. Nothing at all.
All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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FinderDoug
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:00 pm

Doug, I have been reading lefty books for twenty years or so.
And that's wonderful, but I was asking for an actual, verifiable case that supports your claims of book banning and elite media censorship, not a statement of personal experience. You can read something for a hundred years - if you can't accurately discuss it, you're still not going to be taken seriously regarding whatever it is.

Douglas Valentine's book on Paperclip was one suppressed book.
Case in point. The title of this book is? I ask because a) throwing out the name of a left-leaning author and claiming he had a suppressed book STILL AMOUNTS TO LITTLE MORE THAN "FRANK SEZ"; and b) Valentine doesn't appear to have a Paperclip-centric book among his bibliography, even at his own website. So: title?

Bugliosi's Bush book was avoided by media.
It was, but we're not talking about Bugliosi or Bush. Put away the red herring. We're talking about media suppression of Paperclip. Either you have tangible facts that go beyond typing an author's name and saying he had a suppressed book, or you don't.

And no, "I heard it in this thing on YouTube" or "I saw it on a webpage once" or "He mentioned it in an interview, I don;t remember where" are all still just "FRANK SEZ." You brought it up, so what's the title of Douglas Valentine's allegedly suppressed book on Paperclip?

(BTW, Bugliosi sold 130,000 copies of the Bush tome in the first three months and wound up on the NYT bestseller list, and the Times itself did a story on whether Bugliosi was being shut out by the media or not; not only a poor attempt at changing the subject, but a poor example to use.)


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