Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Rick Keeney
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Rick Keeney » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:44 pm

Palestine is a mobile mass of humanity amid the "Occupied Territory," yes? The Palestinians occupy the Occupied Territory, no?

Hell, I don't know. Bet I got that wrong.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:24 pm

Gaza is occupied, they live there, yes. UN mandate.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:27 pm

Israel did use the noxious term, "our people." Someone needs to tell the holy state that we are all the people. The major issue with nation states, people think they are somehow more important. All people weigh the same in the eyes of humanity and shall I say it, God.

It was funny to see Avi Shlait call Saudi Arabia moderate. Good God.

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:57 am

What I meant by my occupied statement is that, normally, "occupation" means there is a police or military presence in the territory occupied all the time, not just around the perimeter. Legally, Gaza is occupied, but somehow there's no Israeli presence within it, which might put a real crimp in the ability of Hamas to bring in rockets and then set them up to launch. So we have an occupation that, in this regard, isn't.

As for the question of launch sites from which Hamas is lobbing those missiles....we have the orbital imagery, we know where they're coming from, it doesn't take a genius to understand political spin under these circumstances. They're launching from right next to hospitals, among other thing.

Finally---and this is where I find this debate most comical---Hamas has yet to back down from its stated aim at destroying Israel. Sorry, but on what basis do you conduct talks given that reality?

Second finally---I don't really care how many Israelis have NOT died, the fact is those rockets are being fired at them with the intent to kill. You somehow claim that Hamas isn't being fairly treated because they fail to kill as many Israelis as Palestinians? (Far as I'm concerned, given that clearly Hamas knows what Israel will do, all those Palestinian deaths are on them.)

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:46 am

What I find fascinating is that the West Nank, which is de facto Occupied, is much more peaceful and safe for Palestinians than is the "independent" Gaza.

I'm not saying it's good or even acceptable for Israel to occupy the Palestinian lands, but when they do it appears to be a much less inflammatory situation.

Hamas is, it should be noted, exactly proving out Israel's long-stated position that an independent Palestinian state would be a threat to Israel.

Personally I believe the Palestinian lands should be free from Israeli control...but only after they learn how to live without violence and accept Israel's borders.

(This whole argument strikes me as a real-life example of an aggressive little boy who keeps kicking an unpopular bigger boy's shins until they bleed. And nobody does anything when the bigger boy complains to the adults in the room -- in this case the regional Arab governments who don't want to get involved. Then, when the big boy finally turns around and clobbers the little boy, people blame the bigger boy for the fight.)
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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:55 pm

If I beat up a seven year old boy bloody, am I in the wrong?

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:56 pm


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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:55 pm

FrankChurch wrote:If I beat up a seven year old boy bloody, am I in the wrong?


If said kid has been repeatedly kicking you, breaking the skin and escalating even after you've shoved him away a few times, you're wrong but it's an understandable reaction. The aggressive seven year old boy is the one who has major behavioral issues, in my opinion.

No, you shouldn't bloody him, but he's a dangerously disturbed child who ought to be controlled.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

DanielBarron
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby DanielBarron » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:11 pm

(This whole argument strikes me as a real-life example of an aggressive little boy who keeps kicking an unpopular bigger boy's shins until they bleed. And nobody does anything when the bigger boy complains to the adults in the room -- in this case the regional Arab governments who don't want to get involved. Then, when the big boy finally turns around and clobbers the little boy, people blame the bigger boy for the fight.)


Exactly:
http://youtu.be/Cbdnu_R9G40

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:59 am

We're fucking bombing Iraq? Really?? Talk about wag the dog.

He's doing this to deflect the Israel continued bombs. I'm sick.

There needs to be marching.

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Daniel, you heard of Ergun, eh? Where they terrorists?

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:08 pm

Mark, we need your input.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:11 pm

Isis may blow that dam if we bomb. Worried.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:13 pm

The World Peace Index is out. It does not look good for a certain country we all love:

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/ ... eace-index

Wow, kudos to Canada. We are 104, shameful.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:38 pm

Ralph Nader was good the other day on Forum program, talking about how the right and the left can come together and change things:

http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201407301000

His point about how most book clubs don't use non fiction books is telling. Americans are afraid to discuss politics. Not a great way to be strong citizens. Without citizenship there can be no change.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:02 am

Obama needs to watch misusing terms like genocide. That's about as loaded as a baked potato at TGI Fridays.

I do worry about my Christian peeps being abused in Iraq. I heard at Bible Study that there are Muslims there who help protect some of them. Very nice of them. We all need to stick together more, my usual complaint.

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Left, Right and Center on KCRW was a barn burner. They really got into a heated one about Gaza. I felt for Robert Scheer. He took a Frank Church style beating. lol.


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