Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:17 pm

For one thing, England and France could have said NO to Hitler's annexation of a chunk of Czechoslovakia. Instead, Chamberlain signed the famous "Peace in Our Time" treaty with him. Hitler was stunned that he got what he wanted so easily -- afterwards he told his associates, "Our enemies are worms; I saw them in Munich." Like many bullies, he would have backed down given the slightest resistence. Instead, he was emboldened. That is the lesson of Munich.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

DanielBarron
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby DanielBarron » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:23 pm

Robert, although I'm in agreement with your point you misquoted the phrase as "peace in our time."

The phrase is actually "Peace for Our Time" which was spoken on September 30th 1938 by Prime Minister Chamberlain in his speech concerning the Munich Agreement and the Anglo-German Declaration.

Sorry for being pedantic.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:50 am

Daniel, you're absolutely right. The phrase Chamberlain used was indeed "Peace for Our Time." Thanks for correcting me, otherwise I'd have continued misquoting it for years. You weren't pedantic, just accurate.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:08 am

We interrupt this broadcast to bring you some real news...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH68bSJXGE8
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:26 am

Excuse me, but Iran has been talking. Why exactly are they doing this? Becuase the West is "doing nothing?" What definition of "nothing" is this? Their economy is all but tanked because of sanctions and the diplomatic pressure from multiple sources is pretty severe. There's a difference between "doing nothing" and "it's not fixed yet!" So, since you're not advocating going to war, exactly what more "nothing" do we do? Once war does break out, if they in fact have a weapons program (I have no doubt they do), said program goes underground---or comes out into the open---and time gets even shorter with less result.

As to Syria, we learned from Iraq. We go in, within six months it is no longer about Assad or the rebels, but about us, and nothing will go well after that. This is one of those intransigent, gnarly facts of this kind of situation which is unfortunate but nevertheless true.

(Before the comparisons get too outrageous, remember that Germany [a] was coming out of a depression by the mid-30s rather than going into one and [b] the Western powers were not unified except in the desire that there be no war. Oh, and [c] they were all still caught up in the global depression as well and had problems brewing in their Empires to complicate matters. I think we pull out the situation in 1938 too casually anymore. Things are not the same. Move on.)

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:54 am

Nason, you need to see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O5zgXeCynQ

Iran is a victim of our aggression, best to support internal democratic struggle and not starve their people. The Mullahs are eating fine.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:32 am

As far as I can see, what the West is doing is allowing Iran to stall for time and get their nuclear facilities developed up to the point where they're "frozen" just two weeks short of building nuclear bombs. That will force other countries in the region to go nuclear. (Yes, I'm aware that Israel "probably" has had nuclear weapons for a long time -- but they've never used them.) In Syria, Assad will either continue to slaughter his people or be replaced by al-Queda or one of its affiliates (far from being "on the run," as the Obama administration says, al-Queda now has franchises, like White Castle). We're doing nothing to stop Assad or support the reformers who oppose him, and we're easing sanctions on Iran that will help their nuclear program more than its hungry people. Aside from sending in toothless weapons inspectors at a later date, how is this much different from inaction? Surely the West can come up with something more effective yet short of war to halt the inevitable. Or will they allow Israel to do the dirty work for the West and then self-righteously denounce Israel while being secretly relieved by the results?
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:37 am

Bullshit, Frank, get the cart behind the horse. After the '79 revolution, Iran set up shop exporting their brand of fundamentalist crap all over the mid-east. Aggression from who and when? The mullahs are bad people and unfortunately they're in charge. How would you suggest we go about removing them from power? It's all well and good to talk about the pain inflicted on "the people" when it's their leaders who suck, but thus far I haven't seen any good options for correcting that which leaves those people unhurt. Yeah, the mullahs are doin' fine. I'm not inclined, this long after Khomeini, to cut Iran anymore slack for what we did in the '50s. They've had ample time and opportunity to remake their country for the benefit of the people Khomeini sought to liberate, and we have a history of hate-filled propaganda and the funding of terrorists. (No, I'm not inclined to use the Iran-Iraq war as an excuse for them, either. They won that war. Or at least didn't lose it.)

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:38 am

Robert,

Actually, there's some question lately as to whether or not Israel has or has not used tactical nukes in Syria, but there's no "probably" about it, they have had them for a while.

Again, though---what would you have the West do short of an invasion?

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:59 am

I said "probably" as a tip of the hat to the longstanding diplomatic tradition of not openly acknowledging that Israel has nukes. (The usual response from Israeli officials is "Israel will not be the first to introduce the use of nuclear weapons into the region.")

I confess I'm not clever enough to devise an effective strategy for dealing with Syria and Iran (though I thoroughly agree with Mark's excellent point about the statute of limitations having run out on Iran's blaming America and the Shah for all its problems, while they've created plenty of new problems themselves since the Ayatollahs took power). So I'll just take a page from Frank's playbook and offer the following link to minds greater than my own:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/ ... 75324.html
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:40 pm

History has no statute of limitations, especially when Israel is world famous for inventing whole swaths of it.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:29 pm

Considering that Jews are a people with a very long history -- roughly 4,000 of it -- they've had a lot of time to accomplisg things, both good and bad, and they've extensively written about it, from the Old Testament to today, thereby providing much fodder for their enemies. (And inspiration for their friends. And edification for all.)

I'm weary of defending Israel, which doesn't need defending from me in any case. Frank, why don't we hear you express your outrage over Syria, where Assad is slaughtering tens of thousands of his people RIGHT NOW. Aren't they also people whose lives concern you? Or do you reserve your indignation for situations only where Jews are involved?
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:47 pm

You are right, we should not arm Al Qaida. I wish Israel and the US would not arm them.

They should support a peace treaty that may keep Assad in power; at least that will stop the violence. Certainly intervention would create more.

American Jews are losing support for Israel so I'm with the Jews. lol

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:49 pm

More media bias on Chomsky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyhdg1eyrp4

I love how he turns that question around on that mook.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:58 pm

Chomskers is so pure.



But let's get to some real news being suppressed by the mainstream media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrvwrPPAIPs

http://www.christianpost.com/news/exper ... st-113350/

You'll never hear this stuff on regular media. Why is that?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter


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