Conservatives Reading Harlan?

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:11 pm

Well Frank, since you asked...

They could start by voting for representatives who actually represent their interests, not for a class of professional politicians who peddle their influence to the highest bidder.

Then, how about a competent President, instead of a fool who tells them what they want to hear and who reinforces their prejudices.

But of course before you can vote your interest you have to know your interest. That's where education comes in.

Forget these shadowy elites and their "masters". That's bullshit. If America is fucked up there is only one place you can put responsibility.

The people.

Our system can no more thrive without an active repsonsible electorate than a car can go without gasoline.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:37 pm

Frank,

"The elite's and their masters control the system"

I'll assume for the sake of false humility that you are privy to the following, but everytime the well-intentioned, formerly dispossessed become the dominant force, the stamp of corruption re-emerges way down the line (the unions being an example) and we inherit the same transgressions (that's the main reason Communism doesn't work; it's the main reason Libertarian wouldn't work). My point is, human nature doesn't change. That's what necessitates a system with checks and balances.

You often love using words like "radical" and "Anarchist". Sometimes you sound like the Weathermen. So, while defining the method of reform and a workable government structure, what is it you're proposing? With all the dumbos and greedy fucks out there, how would you mobilize and institute these policies.

Now, you MAY have a point about how vulnerable Democratic Socialism - which is the only system I can see really working (as it does, for instance, in the Netherlands) - is to the fucking corporate lobbyists and lemmings of the business culture. If you are driving at something I would specifically agree with but am missing because of your usual eluding of the details and facts, then BE more specific.

Otherwise, if you don't know what would REALLY work you are babbling the usual rhetorical bullshit from a world filled with cute elves and bunny rabbits, and happy singing flowers with broad darling smiles.

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Steve Evil
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Postby Steve Evil » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:43 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:
They could start by voting for representatives who actually represent their interests, not for a class of professional politicians who peddle their influence to the highest bidder.


Like whom? There are only two choices on the ballot!

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:34 am

Well Steve, assuming your question is serious and not rhetorical...

If we sit on our ass and wait until election day we can't really bitch about the quality of the candidates now can we?

The answer is what it always has been. Get involved in the mechanism. Party, campaigns, organizing, etc. etc. Tedius? Sometimes. Frustrating? Sometimes.

But there is no other way. Too much like work though, huh? That's why the process has been abandoned to the fanatics and the vampires and that's why things have come to the place they have.

Govt of, for,by the people can't function without the people.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Steve Evil
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Postby Steve Evil » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:55 pm

Well Ezra, the reason I ask is that what you originally said:

They could start by voting for representatives who actually represent their interests, not for a class of professional politicians who peddle their influence to the highest bidder.


suggests that there are representatives on the ballot who actually represent our interests. This is clearly not what you were suggesting, and I am glad to hear it.

I would argue however, that the party mechanism is not the way to go. Rather, get involved in the causes themselves, whatever they may be. The politicians of either stripe will only steal your momentum.



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